WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING STAMP!
Think of it like this: An out of state unlicensed individual does a survey and sells you the plat at a discount where you can mark it up and make some money, but you can't visit the site or review any of the record documents or field data, but you gotta seal it.
While this example is on the extreme side, there's no way I would resell a model that I didn't create even if it was ethical, too much potential liability.
Stamping a machine control model. LoL . You guys crack me up sometimes...
Automatic Machine Guidance is something that is coming like a freight train. I don't see a whole lot of it in my parts right now, but I know it is out there and it is only a matter of time until it is Standard Operating Procedure for construction.
We use Civil3D at our office and my survey department seems to be way ahead of the engineering department when it comes to using the tools at hand. I build digital surfaces and construct underground pipe networks on all of the surveys we do. I am even spending some of my free time at home (free time? what's that?) developing the styles and labels for building profiles, corridors, and pressure networks.
The tools that are available to do this are definitely not perfected yet. And I am always overly cautious to make sure that I understand the underlying principles that these digital tools are using to create their models. In other words, if I can't "do it by hand" I won't "let the computer figure it out". But I am definitely trying to keep informed of the changes in this field around me.
As for using a 3rd party service to build my control model... Not likely. I would definitely prefer to have the ability to do it myself.
Curious? Have you seen legal issue arise with machine control models? I haven't ever seen that. Have any of you witnessed that?
skwyd, post: 331972, member: 6874 wrote: We use Civil3D at our office and my survey department seems to be way ahead of the engineering department when it comes to using the tools at hand. I build digital surfaces and construct underground pipe networks on all of the surveys we do. I am even spending some of my free time at home (free time? what's that?) developing the styles and labels for building profiles, corridors, and pressure networks.
The tools that are available to do this are definitely not perfected yet. And I am always overly cautious to make sure that I understand the underlying principles that these digital tools are using to create their models. In other words, if I can't "do it by hand" I won't "let the computer figure it out". But I am definitely trying to keep informed of the changes in this field around me.
So they haven't got it yet where you take the Civil3d file on a thumb drive, stick into a front end loader and take off with it? You know, kind of like plug and play?
The best way to make extra money is to charge what the job is worth and then insist on collecting that amount. Every time.
Thanks for the commentary. I appreciate it.
I just wanted to let you all know that after having spoken with a few dealerships that sell machine control models built by in house guys and different companies we have decided to try out that affiliate program. They were able to explain the legalities and the risk reward potential of sell models built by another company. It seems a lot of the concerns that some of you brought up about liability are not just a little miss guided but completely wrong. That's not from the dealers but our lawyer.
Either way I will let you know how this works out in a few months and if it is worth it.
Thanks again for all the comments.
misguided? maybe you should also ask your board of registration.
What state do you practice in?
And your E&O carrier
Why dont you ask a company that used a surveyors model to build something and if it ended up in the wrong place who they would sue?
takeoffmat, post: 332735, member: 9638 wrote: I just wanted to let you all know that after having spoken with a few dealerships that sell machine control models built by in house guys and different companies we have decided to try out that affiliate program. They were able to explain the legalities and the risk reward potential of sell models built by another company. It seems a lot of the concerns that some of you brought up about liability are not just a little miss guided but completely wrong. That's not from the dealers but our lawyer.
Either way I will let you know how this works out in a few months and if it is worth it.
Thanks again for all the comments.
I don't know in what state you are licensed. However, in the Ohio ALL surveying and engineering work products must be certified. Additionally certifying anything not completed under your direct supervision is a violation of law and rules. Your lawyer may be knowledgeable contract law. Attorneys are much less knowledgeable about surveying law and rules. Recently had an assistant county prosecutor ask if college courses were required to be licensed. The law requiring a B.S. in surveying was enacted in the late 1980s and became an active requirement a few years later. As others have advised contact your state board of registration before you get involved with this.
takeoffmat, post: 332735, member: 9638 wrote: I just wanted to let you all know that after having spoken with a few dealerships that sell machine control models built by in house guys and different companies we have decided to try out that affiliate program. They were able to explain the legalities and the risk reward potential of sell models built by another company. It seems a lot of the concerns that some of you brought up about liability are not just a little miss guided but completely wrong. That's not from the dealers but our lawyer.
Either way I will let you know how this works out in a few months and if it is worth it.
Thanks again for all the comments.
By all means listen to the dealerships and not the surveyors that actually do the work. It's not like they have ever oversimplified a process to make a sell. Of course all you need to do is push the button and by golly the results are good because you got an answer. My suggestion would be they build the first model while you observe, so that you can build the next. Even if someone else builds the model, you knowing how it is done gives you the ability to review and implement an effective QA/QC plan.
#constructionmodelsdonthavetobecertified #theyrejusttryingtoscareyouitstheirmo
In my experience more problems exist in the control setup and verification, than exist in the model. Contractors can identify a bad single contour elevation quickly. But if the control is off several feet, it may be months of wrong grades before it is identified by contractor.
Roadhand, post: 332782, member: 61 wrote: #constructionmodelsdonthavetobecertified #theyrejusttryingtoscareyouitstheirmo
IN most places the construction contractor is free to hire anybody off the street to produce their models, and they often do. But if they hire a licensed professional to do it they can get their hooks into said professionals E&O. So the pro has his E&O to protect, but has to compete on price with unlicensed people who do not.
An exception is where the client contractually specifies that the modelling be certified done by a PLS. I have seen that. Then the contractor goes hunting for a compliant PLS who will rubber stamp for cash.
Joe off the street can produce models without a violating any licensing laws. Bill the PLS who rubber stamps Joe's models can be guilty failing to provide adequate supervision. But the state board is probably not the greatest concern. E&O claims, and the increase in insurance premiums they cause, can sink a company. And they can make a surveyor unemployable.
But, down at the bottom of this thing, I'm just morally opposed to certifying to something I know nothing about. It just isn't right.
I find this post amusing. I have been creating models for machine control for 13 years.
[sarcasm]I would be very afraid of taking modeling on as a revenue source. Too risky- stay far away!!!! [/sarcasm]
If anyone is interested in accurate models do not hesitate to contact me. 1,000's done to date!
takeoffmat, post: 332735, member: 9638 wrote: I just wanted to let you all know that after having spoken with a few dealerships that sell machine control models built by in house guys and different companies we have decided to try out that affiliate program. They were able to explain the legalities and the risk reward potential of sell models built by another company. It seems a lot of the concerns that some of you brought up about liability are not just a little miss guided but completely wrong. That's not from the dealers but our lawyer.
Either way I will let you know how this works out in a few months and if it is worth it.
Thanks again for all the comments.
I can give you a quote on models. I can model anything there are plans (and some things without plans!)
Thad
Glankler Data Services
I have a few engineering/surveying companies that purchase my models and then uses/sells them to contractors. I don't discount my models for them and i don't know if they add an additional charge to the contractor.
Thad
