The problem with identifying Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln as examples of surveyors is that in each case they did it for a brief period as a sideline. None of them did it as a life's work, none of them had special education on the subject, none of them passed any test to become one.
I would disagree on Washington & Jefferson.
Washington was a prominent surveyor and he did receive some education. He had other interests such as planting crops and land acquisition. French & Indian War and the War of Independence changed his life.
Jefferson's father was a prominent surveyor so young Tom was exposed to surveying as the family business. Jefferson was a genius. He has a mastery of mathematics. He thought that applied calculus was the answer to any pursuit. ( recommend the Gary Wills bio of TJ). As a scientist and administrator , he knew who to employ for surveying by his knowledge. (F. Hassler, Lewis & Clark etc)
Lincoln was the dabbler. From store clerk and surveyor to attorney and politician. I have read that surveying was a merely a stepping stone for him. After briefly surveying, he realized law was his next profession. His contacts from his surveying days became his law clients who became his political backers.
Even though TR was not a surveyor, his creation of the National Parks and lands has had a vital effect on surveying.
Another great read is Undaunted Courage by Steven Ambrose. While the book is about the Lewis & Clark expedition, Lewis was Jefferson's prot̩g̩, and was very accomplished in his own right. These were extremely well educated men who were experts in a number of disciplines; true Renaissance Men.
Lee D, post: 380152, member: 7971 wrote: These were extremely well educated men who were experts in a number of disciplines; true Renaissance Men.
TJ was a product and disciple of the Scottish Enlightenment. Locke and the whole Edinburgh movement. He questioned everything. As a man science, his knowledge encapsulated everything from A to Z.
To date, the entire cadre of presidents could be summed up as 25 lawyers and 19 other guys. I doubt if the pendulum is going to swing back to
66.7% of presidents being surveyors like we used to brag about when Jefferson was in office. Of course, 66.7% of the presidents had been lawyers at that time too. We dropped the ball with Madison and never recovered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_occupation
Mark Mayer, post: 380138, member: 424 wrote: The problem with identifying Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln as examples of surveyors is that in each case they did it for a brief period as a sideline. None of them did it as a life's work, none of them had special education on the subject, none of them passed any test to become one.
I don't think NCEES was in existence back then.
Ron Lang, post: 380524, member: 6445 wrote: I don't think NCEES was in existence back then.
There were examinations to become a lawyer, even in the 18th century.
But my point was that identifying those men as surveyors leaves the impression that a person can just dip into being a surveyor while waiting for their true calling to emerge. These days for a person to become a licensed professional surveyor it needs to be a very long term, if not a lifetime, commitment.
Everybody knows Washington, Jefferson, & Lincoln as great statesmen. And their primary proofessions outside of government service. Oh, they did some surveying, too? As sort of a sideline, was it? What do you do at your real job, Mr. Surveyor?
Surveyors have been an integral and necessary part of civilization since the dawn of civilization itself.
The tools have evolved with advances in technology, but we are still doing what we have done for thousands of years.
Loyal
Mark Mayer, post: 380528, member: 424 wrote: There were examinations to become a lawyer, even in the 18th century.
But my point was that identifying those men as surveyors leaves the impression that a person can just dip into being a surveyor while waiting for their true calling to emerge. These days for a person to become a licensed professional surveyor it needs to be a very long term, if not a lifetime, commitment.
Everybody knows Washington, Jefferson, & Lincoln as great statesmen. And their primary proofessions outside of government service. Oh, they did some surveying, too? As sort of a sideline, was it? What do you do at your real job, Mr. Surveyor?
I was being facetious, but I do agree. Surveying has been a life long commitment for me. However I will admit in the beginning of my career there were times when I couldn't stand being in the field and then being in the office producing like a factory worker. I did throughly enjoy the research and putting the "puzzle" together using all the evidence. It wasn't until I was about 10 years in my career that I realized there is nothing else I would rather be doing, which lead me to get licensed and where I am today.
Nowadays being in the field is more like a vacation day than work. I love what I do!
Robert Hill, post: 380148, member: 378 wrote: Jefferson was a genius.
Yes, especially in his successful push for the Louisiana purchase from France.
Lee D, post: 380152, member: 7971 wrote: nother great read is Undaunted Courage by Steven Ambrose.
That's was a great book as are most by Stephen Ambrose. If you liked that you should read Lewis and Clarks journal. It's like reading an old abstract. Another read by SA you may enjoy is "Nothing like it in the World". It's about the construction of the trans continental railroad.
FL/GA PLS., post: 380536, member: 379 wrote: Yes, especially in his successful push for the Louisiana purchase from France.
Well you could credit France for that.
It's hard to refuse a deal of that magnitude.
Washington and Jefferson did more for surveying than just being surveyors.
Having been a surveyor Washington made a point of have qualified officers on his staff to map all possible battlefields.
Jefferson created the public land system and through Louis and Clark made the need for such a system a necessity.
Paul in PA
Paul in PA, post: 380552, member: 236 wrote: Having been a surveyor Washington made a point of have qualified officers on his staff to map all possible battlefields....Jefferson created the public land system and through Louis and Clark made the need for such a system a necessity.
I'm not denying that these people were great men, nor that they did great things. But lets find out the name of Washington's "Topographical Engineer", as they were called in those days, and talk about that fellow.
What do you do at your real job, Mr. Surveyor?
I work at Mickey Dees. I'm holding out for Shift Manager!
The Article in xyHt "It's time to bury the Dead Presidents" is an interesting perspective.
We love history, but let's talk about the future, If your win in Pok̩mon Go you can be a good surveyor.
I refuse to associate Lincoln with my profession.
Paul in PA, post: 380552, member: 236 wrote:
Jefferson created the public land system and through Louis and Clark made the need for such a system a necessity.
Paul in PA
Would that be Lois Lane and Clark Kent?
Or Captain Meriwether Lewis and Second Lieutenant William Clark?
:smarty:
Loyal
Mark Mayer, post: 380138, member: 424 wrote: The problem with identifying Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln as examples of surveyors is that in each case they did it for a brief period as a sideline. None of them did it as a life's work, none of them had special education on the subject, none of them passed any test to become one.
If I recall, Washington did have special education, some kind of surveying certification from William & Mary College. I do agree with your premise though. In my courses the students studied the surveyors appointed by the presidents, which btw strengthened your premise. The first was a real hack political appointee who was replaced by Jefferson with an excellent, well educated surveyor. Subsequent appointments followed that lead so that the PLSS became much closer to its ideal the further the work progressed. But of course I always threw the joke out there as well. Wouldn't do to be a survey tech. starting out and not know it, or which presidents were the three referred to.
Tommy Young, post: 381648, member: 703 wrote: I refuse to associate Lincoln with my profession.
I respect your opinion.
Lee being a West Point grad performed many engineering surveys for forts, buildings, bridges and river charting.
He also assisted on boundaries of a few northern states.
But he didn't hunt any vampires and become the icon of the GOP and get his mug on the penny.
Do you disassociate yourself from the grand party of Lincoln?
