SurvCE and Civil 3d

Of course you can.

Side shot descriptions:
>EOP
>EOP BC
>EOP
>EOP
>EOP
would produce an "edge of pavement" line with a tangent coming into a 3-point curve, with a line segment coming out of the curve. (substitute what ever you use for your EOP code.)Note there is no "begin" command. This is because often used figures can be preconfigured to auto-start based on the code description.

>EWLK B
>EWLK BC
>EWLK
>EWLK
>EWLK
>EWLK
>EWLK EC

would produce a "figure" named "EWLK" with an incoming tangent, and then 5 additional points on a curve. The "B" code is only needed for non-predefined figures.

So, You will need to spend some time setting up the C3D workstation, but once you've done it once, it's done.

C3D linework coding can handle:
Circle
rectangle
offsets
recall point number
extend
Right Turn

and several other linework codes.

The "old" method of bringing linework in using NOTE lines in the raw notes still works too, for example "BEG EOP1" to start a figure. But, the new linework coding commands added to the descriptions are much more useful.

Craig

I don't think you would be that happy using the C3D method, you will need to create a Fieldbook file, then after that C3D still creates survey objects not lines or polylinesn no matter what acad says those survey objects are a pain to deal with. I think a good option for you would be to create your dxf or export a dwg from within SurvCe having all your linetypes and weights created by layer. Then you can setup a template with C3D and just copy and paste all your linework from within your dxf to the new C3D. Sound a little over the top but in practice it is real simple. I prefer using Carlson FTF over C3D so I paid the price and have Carlson Survey installed inside by C3D program.

Thanks Craig. I was under the impression that you were still required to use the old softdesk/fbk coding style, but if you can use the point description keys to generate the line work (this essentially how Carlson does it) than things are looking up. 🙂

Bob

Robert, your method is essentially how I have done this for years working with survCE and LDD. Can you explode the survey figures in C3d to get polylines? Thanks.

Bob

Honestly, it sounds like you might be best served by hiring someone to help you implement the new software and process.
Mike Carris did an effective job for us, and I am sure Wendell could do the job as well.

If what you need is encouraging, we successfully do what you propose every day, and it works great. We use the database to import txt files, but you could use fieldbook if you like. The fieldbook was difficult to use in that the field procedures must be strictly adhered to.

If you want the integration and balancing the fieldbook provides, it might be worth purchasing Carlson Survey with C3D. Wendell would answer that.

Our implementation relies heavily on description key sets, and inserts symbols, line work, break lines, and surface shots.

Kind of like it being worth a land owner getting a good survey, people like Wendell save people like me a lot of time and suffering.

Got it! I hired a consultant this morning to deal with creating description keys that will work with my numeric system (based on SurvCE coding). Same guy has a pre-setup set of styles/templates to work with civil 3D.

The web site is cadpilot.com, name is Tench Tilghman. His out of the box style/templates set up is called "Instant On Survey". I just downloaded and installed the "Instant On" over the weekend and didn't get a chance to talk to him about this issue until this morning.

My plan now is to adopt the NCS layering standard (which is contained in the "Instant On" set up) but to keep my field codes pretty much as is. The NCS layering scheme doesn't seem like it should be too difficult to adapt to. I'll update here when I see how this works out.

Bob

You can explode them and get 3d polylines but I never saw much reason to do that when it is soooo easy in FTF.

We've been a civil 3D shop since release 2006, and have YET to find a single other office or collaborator or engineer who has ever asked for or knew what the NCS cad layer scheme was.

In fact, I'm considering abandoning the NCS because it's so unnecessary in my circles that I typically run in.

One poster said "you still need to create a field book..." That's simply not accurate. You do need to filter the ASCII file through the survey tool space, that is true. A field book (.fbk) is used if you want to feed civil 3D traditional polar survey data.

I do use the fbk method, but that is because I prefer to reduce the angles and slope distances within civil, so that I can best utilize least squares to statistically analyze my fieldwork, by applying the known (expected) precision as a function of the instrumentation.

Occasionally I will simply rip the .job file into a .txt file and dump the points into civil3D, but only for low order topo jobs, or when there is no balancing or adjustment going to happen.

Figures (what civil calls the auto line work) are tough, no denying it. There are things that some really hate about them, mostly the fact that they are useless if they are inserted at zero elevation, and borderline useless at "elevation" because they do have different vertical elevation at each vertice. So, if you just want to offset the edge of pavement 25 feet, and use that for a 2D plan, you will get something weird.

Figures are excellent at being topo break lines.

You can explode them, and then convert those resulting 3D polys to 2D poly.

Survey toolspace in Civil 3D is.good, and it supports civil engineering works quite well. But it's not and never was intended to be for the boundary-surveyor-only crowd.

I'm glad we made the jump from land to civil. I can't imagine doing what we do in LDD anymore. It was a huge learning curve and quite expensive to set up. But, I am totally self taught, and know how to tweak my points, description keys, figures, survey defaults, etc etc.

> Figures (what civil calls the auto line work) are tough, no denying it. There are things that some really hate about them, mostly the fact that they are useless if they are inserted at zero elevation, and borderline useless at "elevation" because they do have different vertical elevation at each vertice. So, if you just want to offset the edge of pavement 25 feet, and use that for a 2D plan, you will get something weird.
>
> Figures are excellent at being topo break lines.
>
> You can explode them, and then convert those resulting 3D polys to 2D poly.
>

Or you can just use Carlson FTF and not deal with it at all. I agree you can use an acsii file but as you say you lose all the survey value of the raw data file.

This is probably a dumb question, because I know nothing about Civil3D, but is there some reason why you can not open the DC generated DXF linework in Civil3D?

I'm sure you can import the dxf linework into C3d. But, and I may be incorrect on this, I think that C3d is very "feature" based and by generating the breaklines within c3d as figures the data underlying my surface would all be "native" to the system. The way I understand it, C3D works better as a system when the data is maintained within its native features (such as keeping the breakline data as figures).

How much difference this really makes I'm not sure as I haven't really got a good handle on C3d yet. At this point I am trying to approach this with as open a mind as I can because I've invested several thousands of dollars in this software and If I'm ever going to recover this investment I'm going to need to find a way to take advantage of the power this software offers.

I remember when I first go into Robotics. I beat my head against the wall trying to make the Robot do things the way I was used to doing them...eventually I surrendered and began doing things the way the robot wanted to do them. It was only then that I was able to really capitalize on the real power of robotics. I think C3D is going to be similar in that I'm going to have to adopt the methodology that it wants rather than trying to make it do things like I've done them in the past. This time I'd like to avoid as much of the head banging as possible. 🙂

To be honest, I'm still not convinced that this is going be worth all the effort and expense, but I'm in too deep not to make every effort to make this work.

I can tell you that you will hate working with C3D survey figures, they are so clumsy I am betting that before you figure it out Acad will change the way it works. I have tried for years to figure out the thought process behind these things and can't come up with anything positive. I welcome if someone can tell me how to correctly use them in their native format i.e. not exploding them and converting to a 2D line. I use C3D daily and I really like the way it handles points, point groups, parcels, surfaces, alignment, labels etc. I just don't get what they do with the FTF and the survey figures.

I've been using Civil3d for eight years now, from long before there was a survey database or survey figures etc. We have always used featurelines for 3d work. They're essentially the same as survey figures but they can be created manually, or by converting ACad objects such as 3d polylines.

In your case I am guessing that your dxf file includes 3d polylines. Import that into a C3d drawing and convert the 3d polys that you intend as breaklines into featurelines. The other lines which are supposed to be 2d can be converted into regular polylines. Add the features to the surface and you're good to go.

Robert Ellis, post: 235615, member: 1183 wrote: I don't think you would be that happy using the C3D method, you will need to create a Fieldbook file, then after that C3D still creates survey objects not lines or polylinesn no matter what acad says those survey objects are a pain to deal with. I think a good option for you would be to create your dxf or export a dwg from within SurvCe having all your linetypes and weights created by layer. Then you can setup a template with C3D and just copy and paste all your linework from within your dxf to the new C3D. Sound a little over the top but in practice it is real simple. I prefer using Carlson FTF over C3D so I paid the price and have Carlson Survey installed inside by C3D program.

The problem with this approach is that the dxf file only represents the raw information as they are collected in the field. The associated points slightly change in position after data reduction work (least squares for example) so you need to manually edit all the vertices of lines/polylines.

As with anything tech, i would suggest revisiting the survey workflow in C3D. For 85-90 percent of the reasons to generate linework, the tools work great. If the tools get me 80% there and i just have a 20% effort, isn't that better than a situation where my tools only get me 20% there requiring an 80% effort?

While I sometimes get annoyed at the survey figures i find that 95% of the time I never have to touch them. I import the csv file which creates the figures linework, create breaklines from figures and that is typically the end of messing with figures. Works great most of the time.