I have a client who needs a geodetic azimuth determined for an antenna alignment. Regardless of whether or not the meridian convergence between geodetic and state plane bearings will be negligible, I wish to set the azimuth using geodetic bearings. When we view the coordinates of two control points as geographic coordinates in latitude and longitude Smartworx will not provide an inverse azimuth. How do I get the software to compute the geodetic azimuth between two control points?
Can't answer that question but an easy workaround is to key in a third point adding about 2 seconds of latitude and the same longitude as your first point.
just did that man! the darn thing wouldn't let us stake it out though.....we were going to do that and set a point there and then just use it for sight with the TS, but it did not allow stakeout.
Why not just compute it with NGS software on-line and not be dependent on some commercial software? The NGS solution is boilerplate so don't settle for second best.
Would also need a height component. The software needs to use the combined scale factor to project into your local grid system.
No heights are require to convert state plane coordinates to geodetic coordinates.
Once again I've got to be a smart a........
First off, Prof has it right. Go to the NGS website and use their inverse program. Works great.
But more importantly, on to one of my real pet peeves. Once again we have a "professional" (???) surveyor accepting a job that they don't know how to do. Part of being a professional involves only accepting jobs that you are qualified to perform. What we have here is a button pusher that the buttons failed him and he is lost.
OK - go ahead and have at me guys, I can handle it. But I will tell you I do not accept jobs that I am not qualified to do.
Duh, brain phart.
> I have a client who needs a geodetic azimuth determined for an antenna alignment. Regardless of whether or not the meridian convergence between geodetic and state plane bearings will be negligible, I wish to set the azimuth using geodetic bearings. When we view the coordinates of two control points as geographic coordinates in latitude and longitude Smartworx will not provide an inverse azimuth. How do I get the software to compute the geodetic azimuth between two control points?
Why not apply the state plane mapping angle at the antenna to the grid inverse?
I don't disagree with Dave Ingram. Tough words, but possibly necessary. However, it may be presumptuous to say that Dan doesn't understand geodetic bearings. Perhaps he just doesn't understand the software.
> Perhaps he just doesn't understand the software.
And by the time he does understand it, They will update it... and the wheel keeps rolling.
James
Once again I've got to be a smart a........
Dave,
Well....How in the world do you get qualified to do a job unless you do one?
I have 40 years experience in surveying a lot of things, but I did my first radio tower stakeout last year and had no clue but with the help of this site and people that actually have good advice to offer, I pulled it off and can do one again easily.
Tooting ones high and mighty horn is not being helpful.
My 0.02
Randy
I think what he means is key in the new coordinate and do an inverse, the grid az will be something like 0degrees10'24" and you already know the geodetic az will be 0 between two points with the same longitude, no need to stake out; the grid az automatically gives you the mapping angle at that longitude so you can then just stake along that az and you have geodetic north.
Once again I've got to be a smart a........
Staking out a radio tower is one thing - that's stakeout. We all do stakeout and, yes, there's a first time for C&G, lot cors, bldg cors, rd cl, etc etc. But it's all stakeout. Although I can't imagine that I'm qualified to do some of the stakeout that Scott does at WTC - and I wouldn't do it.
But not knowing about a Geodetic inverse - no, there's no excuse for that.
Once again I've got to be a smart a........
>
> But more importantly, on to one of my real pet peeves. Once again we have a "professional" (???) surveyor accepting a job that they don't know how to do. Part of being a professional involves only accepting jobs that you are qualified to perform. What we have here is a button pusher that the buttons failed him and he is lost.
Sounds a little harsh. He just asked a simple question, which I do every day. If asking questions makes you unqualified to do your job, I'm headed for the welfare office.
I apologize if this answer is too long - but I am "teaching how to fish instead of giving you a fish."
I agree with Ingram that we need to take professional responsibility for the services we provide. Not taking the job is one way. I believe that confering with others, learning how to do it, and checking results is a better way.
Step by step approach (that can be checked various ways):
1. Go to the following web site and review Figures 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4. Of course, reading the explanations will help as well. Good explanation.
2. Read Figure 1.4 in particular - it gives labels for each computation. You will be using BK1, BK4, and BK8. Spread sheet software for performing those computations is available at the Global COGO web site.
3. With the tools in hand, the computational steps are:
a. Use BK1 twice - once for each point. Input latitude, longitude, and height. The height can be very approximate - within the nearest 100 meters is just fine. BK1 will give you the geocentric ECEF coordinates for each point.
b. Use BK4 to compute the delta X, delta Y, delta Z (When you look at it, you don't need a spread sheet to do it. It is straight coordinate subtraction.) But use the spread sheet. It will give you a feeling of satisfaction.
c. Use BK8 to compute the local delta e, delta n, and delta up for the vector between the two points. You will need to input the latitude and longitude at the stand point. You also need to input the geocentric delta X, delta Y and delta Z so the spread sheet can compute the local components.
d. The local components are the same as latitude/departure we plane surveyors have been using for generations. The local tangent plane horizontal distance is square root sum of the squares, delta east and delta north. But we are after the azimuth. The geodetic azimuth (not grid azimuth and there is no convergence) is inverse tangent delta east over delta north - same as the regular plane surveying computation.
The equations are given with each spread sheet and you can check your answer each step along the way with your calculator. Of course, Professor Mugnier is also quite correct, use the NGS software to make sure you did it right. Dave Ingram's advice is good if you are too lazy to learn it for yourself. He does not allow for the learing process. We all learn to do something for the first time sometime. The important part is taking responsibility for our work by checking and rechecking.
If you wish to really pursue computing azimuth go to for a rigorous paper on computing 3-D (same as geodetic) azimuth.
Happy computing.
Once again I've got to be a smart a........
It sounds like he has a fine understanding of the basic principles involved. What he asked is how to do it with a particular software, Smartworx. Do you have an answer to his question, or did you just want to go on an ignorant, self-righteous rant?
Jobs you are unqualified for would seem to include anything involving reading comprehension.
Once again I've got to be a smart a........
> First off, Prof has it right. Go to the NGS website and use their inverse program. Works great.
>
> But more importantly, on to one of my real pet peeves. Once again we have a "professional" (???) surveyor accepting a job that they don't know how to do. Part of being a professional involves only accepting jobs that you are qualified to perform. What we have here is a button pusher that the buttons failed him and he is lost.
>
> OK - go ahead and have at me guys, I can handle it. But I will tell you I do not accept jobs that I am not qualified to do.
Sounds to me more like one of these ”on the fly request that we get every so often in the field, on the spot." He knows what he needs to do, just need some help with the toggle. What about the other poster a little while back that did not know how to switch to auto-fine in stakeout mode; does that make him an incompetent? There's tens of options on these DC's, of course a guy can ask for advice once in a while.
And sir, for a man that preaches professionalism, I do not see such quality when I read your post.
Once again I've got to be a smart a........
Ouch! It was just a software question. Hence the category choice.
I will not be the one in the field, so I'm trying to figure out a simple way for the party chief to do the calculation and show him ahead of time to ensure he gets it right. Alternatively he can phone in coords and I'll have to send him the bearing.
