This is probably kind of a dumb question but for some reason I occasionally confuse myself when thinking about it.
So, if I'm labeling manhole inverts in a drawing I label each invert according to which wall of the structure the invert is on.?ÿ For example IE(S)=1000'.?ÿ I wonder what, or if, there is a convention for labeling simple pipe ends.?ÿ If there is a culvert laying east/west, do you label the east end east because that's what end it is, or do you label it west to indicate that's which way the pipe "goes"?
I'm inclined to label the east end east because it seems the most logical, but this way then clashes with how I might label a manhole on the same drawing-- because the south invert in a manhole would be the north end of the pipe.
Does this make sense?
I'm curious to hear how some of y'all might do this.
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I would label each as the invert with an elevation, the type and size of the culvert pipe. I trust that anyone looking at the north point on the drawing would be able to tell which end is which. I might put a flow arrow on the drawing too near the culvert.
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Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
I??ve never labeled a manhole invert. Only the pipes that enter and exit it. ?ÿThe direction is referenced to the structure, not the pipe.
Yeah, we're kind of moving away from labeling individual inverts in manholes anyway.?ÿ Between the difficulty accurately identifying the type and measuring the size, there's not even a great way to measure the invert anyway.?ÿ Unless there is a pipe some distance up the wall of a manhole we typically just give a measurement to the floor and let the manhole to manhole elevations paint the picture.?ÿ Random pipes with exposed ends aren't a problem to measure and ID, but it would be nice to have a method for labeling everything in greater detail (in case that is requested) that reads consistently across the entire drawing.
In my experience, the vast majority of designers like to see the direction of each pipe as it leaves the structure.
If there's a 24 inch corrugated metal pipe leaving a manhole and going to the west, it's getting labeled as:
(W) FL 24" CMP: XXXX.XX'
Directions are first, and if there is more than one pipe/inlet/outlet, they are ordered by highest to lowest elevation, top to bottom.
This lets the designer see at a glance which pipe is the lowest or highest (look at top or bottom) and what direction it is going (look at left side).
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Or some variation of that. FL or IE, whatever they want to see. As long as the type, size, direction and elevation are on there. Some agencies/clients are super picky about what they want to see, but I find the above is pretty easy to parse even.
If they need to visually see flow and/or grade of pipe, I'll use annotative labels on the pipe lines themselves.
In my experience, the vast majority of designers like to see the direction of each pipe as it leaves the structure.
If there's a 24 inch corrugated metal pipe leaving a manhole and going to the west, it's getting labeled as:
(W) FL 24" CMP: XXXX.XX'
Directions are first, and if there is more than one pipe/inlet/outlet, they are ordered by highest to lowest elevation, top to bottom.
This lets the designer see at a glance which pipe is the lowest or highest (look at top or bottom) and what direction it is going (look at left side).
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Or some variation of that. FL or IE, whatever they want to see. As long as the type, size, direction and elevation are on there. Some agencies/clients are super picky about what they want to see, but I find the above is pretty easy to parse even.
If they need to visually see flow and/or grade of pipe, I'll use annotative labels on the pipe lines themselves.
Not in my neighborhood. Lol
I've always labeled it as the direction of the pipe as it leaves the structure, which I guess would be the same as its location within the structure. That's the same as I've always seen it done, so anything other than that would be confusing to me.
Also, not that you asked, but since I use Civil 3D labels for structures, the only selections for components would be either Connected Pipe Direction or Connected Pipe Flow Direction.?ÿ
I've always labeled it as the direction of the pipe as it leaves the structure, which I guess would be the same as its location within the structure. That's the same as I've always seen it done, so anything other than that would be confusing to me.?ÿ
Right, and that makes sense to me too.?ÿ So how do you label the end of a simple exposed pipe??ÿ Do you put a direction on it?
I've always labeled it as the direction of the pipe as it leaves the structure, which I guess would be the same as its location within the structure. That's the same as I've always seen it done, so anything other than that would be confusing to me.?ÿ
Right, and that makes sense to me too.?ÿ So how do you label the end of a simple exposed pipe??ÿ Do you put a direction on it?
I do put a direction on it, for the sake of consistency.
Not in my neighborhood. Lo
Maybe it's changed in the 4-5 years since I left. When I worked in AK, including Fairbanks, we labelled our inverts for design surveys in that manner, and occasionally grades as well. Utilidors got top elevations and ground elevations at same point.
So how do you label the end of a simple exposed pipe??ÿ Do you put a direction on it?
If it's obvious which way it's heading out of the structure, yes. If I don't know whether it's connecting up to another structure, it gets a line coming out of the structure that is cut off and a multileader note stating that its connection is unknown.
If I can't tell at all which way it's going, it gets an invert and an "unknown direction" tag.
You can bet if those pipe ends are on any sort of drawing, as-built, GIS, or cocktail napkin from the past, the PEs are going to be asking about them. Give em as much information as you can without guessing. Helps them get their job done and helps you get them off your back.
@rover83?ÿ
I did a poor job of making my point which is that there no national standard that I??m aware of. ?ÿIf there is one I??d be interested in knowing it before I??m out the door.
@rover83?ÿ
I did a poor job of making my point which is that there no national standard that I??m aware of. ?ÿIf there is one I??d be interested in knowing it before I??m out the door.
You and me both. Seems like every engineer, or at least every firm, has their own idea of what "the standard" is.
@rover83?ÿ
In my experience whatever you do isn't "what we normally get". The least amount of complaints seem to come if you just annotate each manhole on the drawing with CL (cover level) and IL (outlet invert level) and add a note to the drawing saying "For manhole details see separate schedule" - but you must remember to do one!!
Depending on the amount of construction detail needed we either do our schedules 3 to a page (full construction detail including walls, slab, benching descriptions etc) or 10 to a page (just diagram, pipe and invert sketch, with tabulated information for all pipes in the chamber) - ALWAYS oriented to NORTH (true or site).
do you label it west to indicate that's which way the pipe "goes"?
The run of the pipe is drawn in on my maps. Labelling the direction seems redundant, to me..?ÿ
Previously I was accustomed and trained to collect inverts in manholes with our F2F process.
This included a sheet or sheets for each numbered manhole/inlet/structure, and allowed for all the measurements for up to 6 pipes, allowed for the compass bearing into and out of, use of PipeMik and deflection of, etc.
We collected with PNEZD1D2A1-5 and when imported to C3D used the UDP templates to populate the inv in pipe size depth/elevation direction etc.
I miss all the extras that system had, recently I've been trying to incorporate that method with lots of apathy for change ?????ÿ