C3D labels

C3d is "reactive" and labels aren't just text entities. You assign the label to a line, and if the line changes the label changes with it. Everything in C3d is like that. You change the input data and everything built from that data updates automatically. It's very powerful but with great power comes great responsibility.

Why are lines being changed so late in the game?

In Land Desktop you have the option to "disassociate labels" so they become simple text and no longer dynamic with the linework. Did C3D do away with this option? I usually label my lines and then disassociate so even if the linework changes, someone building the boundary with the numbers will get it the way that I intended...

Zoidberg, post: 436468, member: 8841 wrote: Did C3D do away with this option?

Yes, it has, in a manner of speaking. But you can simply label between 2 points - ie/ not associate the label with a line - by clicking on any 2 points in space. But then if you change the line the label doesn't change, and that associativity is where the power of C3d is supposed to be.

Using C3d well requires a change in thinking and processes, without that change C3d is just a crappy update to LDD.

Mark is correct, trim or extend a line, the numbers change. I often find this annoying. Depending on what I'm doing, I end up putting in some of the bearings and distances with regular text.

David Livingstone, post: 436493, member: 431 wrote: Mark is correct, trim or extend a line, the numbers change. I often find this annoying. Depending on what I'm doing, I end up putting in some of the bearings and distances with regular text.

Yes, that's what they're telling me, and I understand that. But I don't like it, and am trying to get them to stop it. Besides me not being able to view the labels in Carlson, I've had more than one occasion where dimensions have changed since my last review.

In some ways it is a good thing. Whatever the label says is exactly what the line geometry is. Maybe you should tell them to stop trimming and extending stuff. Are they doing this to boundary lines or just building dimensions and things?

Oh, I get that it has its uses, but it's still something that drives me nuts. Just the idea that its possible, makes me need to check every dimension again.

I'm going to have to start doing all boundary plans myself, at this rate.

One thing you can do is lock the points in Civil 3D. Otherwise they can be moved like any other item. Luckily we have people that understand, mainly from past mistakes, the problems with moving, rotating, triming, extending etc items in Autocad.

You must adapt your workflow to the C3D environment if you are going to 'live' in it. Yes, it sucks at first but once you have a good procedure down you'll wonder how you ever did it the old way. Personally,I (or my right hand man) create all the boundary and row lines in one drawing that no one else modifies. Labels are all done through an xref so the drafter (if there is such a thing nowadays) cannot alter the source material. We typically don't have drafters but have been in companies that do and can understand the situation you are in. Meet with your Cad Manager and setup a proper workflow and understanding of the process.

I understand working with different sofwares, and especially people. That said, why does it have to be changeable? You're saying that C3D can't make B-D so they don't change?

Talked to the CAD manager, and at this point I sometimes can't tell if I actually spoke to someone or just head-butted the conc wall a few times.

JPH, post: 436522, member: 6636 wrote: That said, why does it have to be changeable? You're saying that C3D can't make B-D so they don't change?

It's a Zen thing.....the is no bearing and distance, just a line. What you perceive as a separate bearing and distance is just the line telling you about it's nature at that time. 😉

James Fleming, post: 436528, member: 136 wrote: It's a Zen thing.....the is no bearing and distance, just a line. What you perceive as a separate bearing and distance is just the line telling you about it's nature at that time. 😉

Now, it all makes sense! Thank you so much for enlightening me.

JPH, post: 436522, member: 6636 wrote: I understand working with different sofwares, and especially people. That said, why does it have to be changeable? You're saying that C3D can't make B-D so they don't change?

Talked to the CAD manager, and at this point I sometimes can't tell if I actually spoke to someone or just head-butted the conc wall a few times.

So you would want to have a line drawn that is 99.86' long and have the label say 100.00'? I'm just trying to understand the problem. The line should not be moved, rotated, lengthened, shortened, etc. Why would they change the geometry of the lines? And if someone did change it, then why would you not want the label to reflect it? I did start out using the static labels, but I think I prefer the dynamic ones.

You could "explode" the label so it is just text. Then they can can't mess with it, but why are they manipulating the boundary lines in the first place? [edit] they can still mess with it, but it would have to be totally deliberate....

I'm slowly but surely weaning myself off of LDD and the labeling is the hardest thing I've dealt with. Not that it is hard, just that I've been using the LDD way of decades. That being said, if your CAD staff is moving you lines or nodes that sounds like a training issue and not a software thing.

I have seen situations in Carlson where a point symbol can accidentally snapped to an end point on the symbol instead of the actual node. C3D won't let you do that. Point styles can look as complicated as any block you may want to use, you can still only snap to it by node. Also a lot of Carlson users will have an automatic crd update if they accidentally move a point grip. C3D can do that as well, but it will bitch about it enough to make you aware of it. If you are dealing with labels that do not match the line geometry in your drawings, then there are more serious issues than product preference.

Dan Patterson, post: 436535, member: 1179 wrote: So you would want to have a line drawn that is 99.86' long and have the label say 100.00'? I'm just trying to understand the problem. The line should not be moved, rotated, lengthened, shortened, etc. Why would they change the geometry of the lines? And if someone did change it, then why would you not want the label to reflect it? I did start out using the static labels, but I think I prefer the dynamic ones.

You could "explode" the label so it is just text. Then they can can't mess with it, but why are they manipulating the boundary lines in the first place? [edit] they can still mess with it, but it would have to be totally deliberate....

Sometimes there are multiple monuments along a line, or if there are multiple lots on the same line, if I label one, then extend the line past a sideline, for instance, I don't want the label changing.

That's, for example, but as said, I'm not the one doing it, and have no idea why it's happening. I just looked at a plan, and somehow a distance that had been there before magically disappeared, and no one seems to no what the F happened.

It's just aggravating. Sure, it's a training thing, but I still don't like that it can happen. Maybe for you who have total control because you're doing your own drafting, or have developed total trust in a draftsman, but we have a varied crew here, who almost none have boundary drafting experience. Some think they do, but not really.

BTW... You can change the text on any C3D label despite it's properties. Right click select on the label, select 'Edit Text,' and change the text to anything you like... much like over-riding dimension texts.

Sorry to hear the Cad Manager had ego issues. I've just been promoted to CAD Manager, and that's not the right way to handle a situation. Each new release of every Cad package under the sun are becoming more and more complicated, cumbersome and requiring everyone to find their own 'work-arounds.' Technical assistance from someone whose job it is to keep up with the industry should not come with a heavy dose of someone's over-estimate opinion of themselves. I figure everyone's plate is too full keeping focus on their projects and keeping up to date with their own disciplines to have to feel like need to reinvent the wheel every time they open a cad file. A cad manager should feel encumbered to find those 'work-arounds,' develop the workflows, techniques and acceptability for everyone on the team, not look for excuses or playing the blame game.

What I've learned to do is just work around the C3D thing. I've broken lines and had the bearing and distance move to a place I didn't want it. You just have to wrap your mind around what its doing, but it was a problem for me when I started using it.

The Cad manager has issue why should he support Carlson (i think its a basic cad program) and C3D is a monster ( i suspect CAD manager is having problems controlling C3D itself) nothing to do with carlson

I use C3D for everything emails, simple text and 2-200 million dollar design / build jobs i i use it for everything so it forces me
after 8 years fairly good at it.

The problem with C3D is there is no such thing as a casual user, Ether you use 8 hours a day a its maximum or
there is grief.

I suspect the main working C3D drawing has a style or datum that may change or dim-style that may change the imported info from carlson Dwg

even a basic dim style in plain autocad has ways to display various units

For example i can create a metric C3D drawing a label that displays coords in meters, elevations in feet, and cut/fill in 1/8 inches and offset in feet and tenths
mind boggling in its flexibility . Combine the above with other grid datum defined in the plan error its SOMEWHERE.

So you bring info in and there is a datum / style conflict what rules ??????

Suggest drop carlson and put C3D operator in survey department and keep all work in one soft

I have 3 Calrson surv Ce DCs 5.02 and i like carlson but i suspect putting COMPANY cad across two Cad softs is a recipe for problems.

Next C3d Learning curve for me science project = following

I have a test project to use C3D quantity take of manager which i going to force myself to learn the basics over a month NA.... more like a year
would be more realistic.

Pete