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C3D COGO

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Williwaw
(@williwaw)
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I'm sort of stuck with C3D for the time being and trying to come up with the best way of computing points. Using 'mapcogo' on the command line brings up the Cogo Input interface. When I pick a point and enter in a bearing and distance and hit calculate, it appears to compute a vector to the new point location (as shown on attached screen shot), but when I hit 'Create Point', bloop, it all goes away, nothing stored and everything disappears. What I've had to do up to now is draw up line work using 'bd to enter bearings and distances to compute lines and then return and manually assign points to the vertices and I find it a bit azz backward and clunky. Surely with a program a sophisticated as C3D there has to be a better way. I'm not sure what I'm missing. Can any survey wizards out there point out the error of my ways here?

TIA Willy

Screenshot 2024 12 12 113645

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Posted : December 12, 2024 1:53 pm
(@wa-id-surveyor)
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We create a lot of points but rarely in the way you describe.  We're usually adding them to design data or previously cogo'd surveys and plats, etc...

With that said, there are way too many ways to create points in C3d.  See the snippet below, it has many options along the lines of what you appear to be looking for.

c3d
 
Posted : December 12, 2024 2:54 pm
Williwaw
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@wa-id-surveyor I've been through this under the Points pull down more times than I care to count. It's a good thing you don't use it, because it doesn't work.

Bearing> enter .P for starting point, enter starting point, enter quadrant 1-4, enter bearing, followed by the distance and it create a cogo point on top of your starting point. Not only is it clunky as all get out, it just flat out doesn't work. 

  

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 12, 2024 5:39 pm
dave-o
(@dave-o)
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I draw out boundaries in C3D for use in the controller.  AI helped me write a lisp routine a year or so ago where I run it (PROPLINE) and it prompts me for a start, DD, MM, SS, Distance.  I label them with C3D annotation commands to verify record and add points prelabeled through the Points Creation dialog. Not a NeuraLink recognition plot deed app, but saves me hours from what I'd been doing.  Happy to share if you'd like.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 12:37 am
(@davidgstoll)
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Hi Willy,
Don't use MAPCOGO. You're right, it doesn't work.
Instead, use the pulldown under Points, as shown by @WA-ID Surveyor.
Dave

COGO 1
 
Posted : December 13, 2024 1:25 am

Williwaw
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Posted by: @davidgstoll

Hi Willy,
Don't use MAPCOGO. You're right, it doesn't work.
Instead, use the pulldown under Points, as shown by @WA-ID Surveyor.
Dave

-- attachment is not available --

I can't get that one to work either but I'll keep trying. I probably need to sacrifice a chicken or some voodoo hocus pocus to get it to work.

 

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 9:55 am
Williwaw
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Posted by: @dave-o

I draw out boundaries in C3D for use in the controller.  AI helped me write a lisp routine a year or so ago where I run it (PROPLINE) and it prompts me for a start, DD, MM, SS, Distance.  I label them with C3D annotation commands to verify record and add points prelabeled through the Points Creation dialog. Not a NeuraLink recognition plot deed app, but saves me hours from what I'd been doing.  Happy to share if you'd like.

Thanks. I'm open to anything at this point. I've got about 60 corner positions to comp out today and at this rate I should have it done by some time next week. I'll try messaging you my email. W

 

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 9:58 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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My process with C3d (and LDT, LDD, & Softdesk before it) has always been to draw the linework and then create points by snapping to the linework.  I am aware of these point creation functions by bearing that WA-ID has shown but have never used them in production. I'm always using the "manual" option.  

I began my CAD career as a C&G Survey Systems jock (c.1990-97) which was all point driven. It was nearly impossible to draw lines without first calculating numbered endpoints. It took me some time to change my thinking when I switched to AutoCAD. But nowadays you can load a dxf into most data collectors and stake by selecting drawing elements, entirely without numbered points.   

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 11:43 am
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(@davidgstoll)
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Willy,
Points >> Create Points-Miscellaneous >> Bearing is what you need. I use it all day long. Let's figure out why it's not working for you.
At what point are the wheels falling off?
You can e-mail me. My username at gmail.com.
Dave

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 11:48 am
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(@wa-id-surveyor)
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Posted by: @norman-oklahoma

My process with C3d (and LDT, LDD, & Softdesk before it) has always been to draw the linework and then create points by snapping to the linework.  I am aware of these point creation functions by bearing that WA-ID has shown but have never used them in production. I'm always using the "manual" option. 

This is how we do it, we never just create points, or very rarely.  Point are always created manually and the ends of lines, intersections, etc...  Much more flexibility with these methods.  You can rotate and check data-linework before establishing points.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 12:09 pm
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(@blitzkriegbob)
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It's not often I say this, but I have learned something new. I have been using C3D since 2006, and I never have heard of this Mapcogo command. I tried it and it did not work for me either. I rarely set points for anything, but if I do, I do as Norman suggests.

If I were you, I would check the settings for creating points as per the attached image. Perhaps you are defaulting to a layer that is off or frozen, or you have a default point style that is not set to display. I tried the Create Line by Bearing and it worked fine for me.

Also like Norman, I began my CAD career working on a mainframe system that was completely point driven. I believe it was called CivilCADD. Actually it had a different name originally but it changed to CivilCADD once AutoCad was becoming more widely used. I hardly remember what it was like having to set thousands of points to be able to draw a subdivision. Points for boundaries, blocks, lots, center lines, right-of-ways, easements, streets, utilities, etc. Now I set points like maybe once a year.

Screenshot 2024 12 13 083750

 

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 12:13 pm
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Williwaw
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@wa-id-surveyor I am definitely open to new ways of doing things. My predecessor here would just open a .dwg of the parcel maps and manually drop points in on the vertices. Quick and dirty. The only issue I have with that is the parcel maps have often been rubber sheeted and the dimensions may not match with the original plat, but they are likely good enough to get someone in the general ball park for doing a search. I, being a creature of habit, like to inverse between my cogo and found points in the field to quickly asses how things are matching up to record and to tweek those search points in the field if need be. I absolutely do see your point though and going forward will keep an open mind. I will say I miss Carlson. Not perfect for this type of thing, but miles better than this. Thanks for all your suggestions.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 1:09 pm
Williwaw
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Posted by: @norman-oklahoma

My process with C3d (and LDT, LDD, & Softdesk before it) has always been to draw the linework and then create points by snapping to the linework.  I am aware of these point creation functions by bearing that WA-ID has shown but have never used them in production. I'm always using the "manual" option.  

I began my CAD career as a C&G Survey Systems jock (c.1990-97) which was all point driven. It was nearly impossible to draw lines without first calculating numbered endpoints. It took me some time to change my thinking when I switched to AutoCAD. But nowadays you can load a dxf into most data collectors and stake by selecting drawing elements, entirely without numbered points.   

Aside from warped parcel/tax maps, I most of the time, don't have access to the original .dwg and have to recreate it using the record data and I'll build my linework off those points. Run the boundary to close it, come back and compute across and check into the boundary to avoid fat fingering anything and build out the ROW and lots I need, checking in as I go. I can do this in the field in the DC if I have to but it's painful and easy to screw up. If push comes to shove I'll have to draw up the lines and arcs first and then come back and drop points. If it's really involved I'll isolate the different records to their own point group and layer. If nothing else I'll learn a thing or two from this and that never hurts anything. 

 

 

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 1:18 pm
Williwaw
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Posted by: @blitzkriegbob

It's not often I say this, but I have learned something new. I have been using C3D since 2006, and I never have heard of this Mapcogo command. I tried it and it did not work for me either. I rarely set points for anything, but if I do, I do as Norman suggests.

If I were you, I would check the settings for creating points as per the attached image. Perhaps you are defaulting to a layer that is off or frozen, or you have a default point style that is not set to display. I tried the Create Line by Bearing and it worked fine for me.

Also like Norman, I began my CAD career working on a mainframe system that was completely point driven. I believe it was called CivilCADD. Actually it had a different name originally but it changed to CivilCADD once AutoCad was becoming more widely used. I hardly remember what it was like having to set thousands of points to be able to draw a subdivision. Points for boundaries, blocks, lots, center lines, right-of-ways, easements, streets, utilities, etc. Now I set points like maybe once a year.

-- attachment is not available --

 

I've been playing around with these settings quite a bit and one of the issues I've been having is none of the changes I make, say selecting between automatic and manual entry of the descriptor or elevation for example, get saved when I close it out. Defaults back to the original settings when I close it. I've been searching for some kind of a 'save' option in here to lock down those setting edits and so far no luck. I'll keep poking and prodding, I have to be missing something, somewhere. Thanks for your help.

 

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 1:27 pm
dave-o
(@dave-o)
Posts: 448
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Thanks. I'm open to anything at this point. I've got about 60 corner positions to comp out today and at this rate I should have it done by some time next week. I'll try messaging you my email. W

@williwaw - Here you go.  Didn't mention this is set up to input metes as Az.  We don't use cardinal bearings here at all. (looks like I have to add a false extension to the file to upload.  Just remove the .txt>

 

 

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 1:57 pm

Williwaw
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@dave-o Cool. Thanks. Will give it a whirl.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 2:31 pm
Williwaw
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Posted by: @williwaw

I've been playing around with these settings quite a bit and one of the issues I've been having is none of the changes I make, say selecting between automatic and manual entry of the descriptor or elevation for example, get saved when I close it out. Defaults back to the original settings when I close it.

To answer my own question. The answer to that is in the Toolspace 'Settings' tab. Yay.

Screenshot 2024 12 13 134422

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 13, 2024 3:45 pm