Opus question

Many of the opus folks are not surveyors.
If the guy knows what he is doing, not a problem.
If the guy were a surveyor, and did not know what he was doing, well, big problem.
That's what I think.
N

Phil Garcia, post: 408820, member: 301 wrote: Here's a question for you. If an unlicensed individual performs an OPUS share session
on a point and has it published through the Opus site(with the possibility that someone
may use the information in a Future survey), is he/she surveying?

Does it make a difference if the point is a:
A) Existing NGS monument ?
B) Existing monument stamped with a ls number ?
C) Existing unmarked monument ?
D) Monument set by the individual ?

I'm in New Mexico. So it would be great any one who can answer for that state. But I
think the question can be asked for about any where.

Let me know what you think.

Need more information but from what is given, I would say no, not a problem.

Phil Garcia, post: 408820, member: 301 wrote: Let me know what you think.

The person might be an NGS geodisist, using the system for it's intended purpose. The whole dang geospatial network has been set up, and is maintained, by people who are not, for the most part, licensed surveyors.

Phil Garcia, post: 408820, member: 301 wrote: Here's a question for you. If an unlicensed individual performs an OPUS share session
on a point and has it published through the Opus site(with the possibility that someone
may use the information in a Future survey), is he/she surveying?

Does it make a difference if the point is a:
A) Existing NGS monument ?
B) Existing monument stamped with a ls number ?
C) Existing unmarked monument ?
D) Monument set by the individual ?

I'm in New Mexico. So it would be great any one who can answer for that state. But I
think the question can be asked for about any where.

Let me know what you think.

OPUS is a free government tool that was not intended o be a strictly surveyor's tool. Anyone is free to occupy any geodetic monument that is not on private property, within a railroad corridor or some other secure area. The person who may eventually accept that published position in the process of making a survey accepts all responsibility for the data.

Now I am trying to understand why I would accept a published position other than the NGS version.

Paul in PA

It would depend upon how he is publishing his results.
Is he giving the location of a boundary monument or points along a boundary.
Is he making a metes and bounds or bearing and distance report between boundary monuments.
If there are no report of the location of boundaries or boundary monuments, IMVHO, no license is needed.

It would not be Land Surveying in Minnesota:
Chapter 326.02 MINNESOTA STATE STATUTES
Subd. 4.Practice of land surveying.

Land surveying means the application of the principles of mathematics, physical and applied sciences and law to measuring and locating lines, angles, elevations and natural or artificial features in the air, on the surface of the earth, underground and on the beds of bodies of water for the purpose of:

(1) determining, monumenting, establishing, or reestablishing property boundaries;

(2) determining, monumenting, or reestablishing the position for any public land survey system corner or line;

(3) planning, designing, and platting of land and subdivisions including the topography, alignment and grades of streets; and

(4) preparing and perpetuating maps, record plats, and property descriptions.

Any person who offers to perform, holds out as being able to perform, or does perform land surveying for others shall be practicing land surveying.

Nothing contained in the provisions of sections 326.02 to 326.15, shall prohibit a licensed professional engineer, architect, landscape architect, or professional geoscientist from doing any work included in the practice of engineering, architecture, landscape architecture, and professional geoscience, if the work does not involve the establishment or reestablishment of property corners, property lines, or public land survey system corners or lines.

Phil Garcia, post: 408820, member: 301 wrote: If an unlicensed individual performs an OPUS share session
on a point and has it published through the Opus site(with the possibility that someone
may use the information in a Future survey), is he/she surveying?

First: Yes - the question can be asked for about anywhere but the answer will vary from state to state.
Second: I'm not from NM but the statue looks pretty clear:

61-23-3. DEFINITIONS.
As used in the Engineering and Surveying Practice Act [61-23-1 NMSA 1978]: ‰Û?

N. "surveying", "practice of surveying" or "surveying practice" means any service or work, the substantial performance of which involves the application of the principles of mathematics and the related physical and applied sciences for:
[INDENT](1) the measuring and locating of lines, angles, elevations and natural and man-made features in the air, on the surface of the earth, within underground workings and on the beds or bodies of water for the purpose of defining location, areas and volumes;
(2) the monumenting of property boundaries and for the platting and layout of lands and subdivisions;
(3) the application of photogrammetric methods used to derive topographic and other data;
(4) the establishment of horizontal and vertical controls that will be the basis for all geospatial data used for future design surveys, including construction staking surveys, surveys to lay out horizontal and vertical alignments, topographic surveys, control surveys for aerial photography for the collection of topographic and planimetric data using photogrammetric methods, and construction surveys of engineering and architectural public works projects; and
(5) the preparation and perpetuation of maps, records, plats, field notes and property descriptions;[/INDENT]
Per: http://www.sblpes.state.nm.us/uploads/FileLinks/3a22dfad719d4b208229a6ac3d17b69c/2012_NM_Engineering_and_Surveying_Practice_Act_2013___WEBSITE_1.pdf

So... If the OPUS shared solution is to establish control values for future surveys described in the statute then it sure looks like the State of New Mexico ENGINEERING AND SURVEYING PRACTICE ACT NMSA 61-23-3 N. (4) says that it‰Ûªs surveying (requiring licensure). The way it's written I don't even think it matters if somebody is simply getting an OPUS solution for the sake of doing it - if somebody ends up using the control values for future surveys then it' "will be the basis for". I'd think it would be pretty hard to say someone was practicing surveying if there was no intent to use it as control for future surveys.

I don't see any problem. It is a utility for everyone.
Surveyors, GIS, Environmental Scientists,geologists, Engineers, geodesists,students,

It could be someone who is under the direct supervision of a surveyor.

tomarneson, post: 408836, member: 864 wrote: It would not be Land Surveying in Minnesota:
Chapter 326.02 MINNESOTA STATE STATUTES
Subd. 4.Practice of land surveying.

Land surveying means the application of the principles of mathematics, physical and applied sciences and law to measuring and locating lines, angles, elevations and natural or artificial features in the air, on the surface of the earth, underground and on the beds of bodies of water for the purpose of:

(1) determining, monumenting, establishing, or reestablishing property boundaries;

(2) determining, monumenting, or reestablishing the position for any public land survey system corner or line;

(3) planning, designing, and platting of land and subdivisions including the topography, alignment and grades of streets; and

(4) preparing and perpetuating maps, record plats, and property descriptions.

Any person who offers to perform, holds out as being able to perform, or does perform land surveying for others shall be practicing land surveying.

Nothing contained in the provisions of sections 326.02 to 326.15, shall prohibit a licensed professional engineer, architect, landscape architect, or professional geoscientist from doing any work included in the practice of engineering, architecture, landscape architecture, and professional geoscience, if the work does not involve the establishment or reestablishment of property corners, property lines, or public land survey system corners or lines.

It looks like MN may be rare in that "surveying" is only boundary establishment, compare that to the quoted NM law where they have included control surveys. In my research, more states are worded similar to NM than not.

SHG

A geodesist's perspective

Realize, geodetic observations has been largely crowdsourced since 1970, first from other federal agencies, then states, and now all manner of folks are bluebooking (a brave act) or sharing via OPUS (much simpler). Even the CORS are 98% run by non-NGS agencies. So, either way, this is the future of geodesy. The proud old parade of full-time professional USCGS field crews are all relaxing in Palm Springs or Valhalla by now.

OPUS shared solutions are NOT NGS datasheets, they have simpler (less mature?) validation and appear first as NO CHECK evidence. But they are some evidence nonetheless. The sharer is only responsible for the mark ID, description and photos, tripod plumb, and antenna type and height, OPUS pretty much does everything else. OPUS robo-filters block about 15% of attempts due to (occasionally unfair) quality flags, and a manual review catches a surprising number of other blunders (the true price of free data?) though it is not possible to catch all problems. And while the users self identify, the email addresses are authenticated and prominently displayed on the solution, which OPUS hopes will pressure the sharer into giving their best effort.

Ideally, the community will glom onto a few favorite marks, and re-share those, and the coherence of those repeated surveys will strengthen your confidence much better than any bluebooked survey could. This coherence ranking could also apply to the sharers, allowing you to filter out or deprecate contributions from those who lack a body of shared work proven right by other's shared works. Geodesists are big data people, and this could be a fun and profitable future for all!

JKinAK, post: 408838, member: 7219 wrote: First: Yes - the question can be asked for about anywhere but the answer will vary from state to state.
Second: I'm not from NM but the statue looks pretty clear:

61-23-3. DEFINITIONS.
As used in the Engineering and Surveying Practice Act [61-23-1 NMSA 1978]: ‰Û?

N. "surveying", "practice of surveying" or "surveying practice" means any service or work, the substantial performance of which involves the application of the principles of mathematics and the related physical and applied sciences for:
[INDENT](1) the measuring and locating of lines, angles, elevations and natural and man-made features in the air, on the surface of the earth, within underground workings and on the beds or bodies of water for the purpose of defining location, areas and volumes;
(2) the monumenting of property boundaries and for the platting and layout of lands and subdivisions;
(3) the application of photogrammetric methods used to derive topographic and other data;
(4) the establishment of horizontal and vertical controls that will be the basis for all geospatial data used for future design surveys, including construction staking surveys, surveys to lay out horizontal and vertical alignments, topographic surveys, control surveys for aerial photography for the collection of topographic and planimetric data using photogrammetric methods, and construction surveys of engineering and architectural public works projects; and
(5) the preparation and perpetuation of maps, records, plats, field notes and property descriptions;[/INDENT]
Per: http://www.sblpes.state.nm.us/uploads/FileLinks/3a22dfad719d4b208229a6ac3d17b69c/2012_NM_Engineering_and_Surveying_Practice_Act_2013___WEBSITE_1.pdf

So... If the OPUS shared solution is to establish control values for future surveys described in the statute then it sure looks like the State of New Mexico ENGINEERING AND SURVEYING PRACTICE ACT NMSA 61-23-3 N. (4) says that it‰Ûªs surveying (requiring licensure). The way it's written I don't even think it matters if somebody is simply getting an OPUS solution for the sake of doing it - if somebody ends up using the control values for future surveys then it' "will be the basis for". I'd think it would be pretty hard to say someone was practicing surveying if there was no intent to use it as control for future surveys.

I disagree with John... The statute he highlighted deals with the ESTABLISHMENT of controls. The monument is already established in this case.

JKinAK, post: 408838, member: 7219 wrote:
[INDENT](4) the establishment of horizontal and vertical controls that will be the basis for all geospatial data used for future[/INDENT]

The word all in this section is confusing to me.

aliquot, post: 408878, member: 2486 wrote: The word all in this section is confusing to me.

I agree - an extremely poorly written sentence. I would say that it is impossible to comply with this. No one can know what will be done in the future.

Indiana...
IC 25-21.5-1-7
"Practice of surveying"
(b) Professional services provided under the practice of surveying include consultation, investigation, testimony evaluation, expert technical testimony, planning, mapping, assembling, and interpreting gathered measurements and information related to any of the following:
(3) Determining, by the use of principles of surveying, the position for any non-boundary related survey control monument or reference point, or setting, resetting, or replacing any non-boundary related monument or reference point.

Kentucky...
322.010 Definitions for chapter.
(10) "Land surveying" means any professional service or work, the adequate performance of which requires the education, training, and experience as a land surveyor. (a) "Land surveying" shall include but not be limited to the following:
b. Establishment of photogrammetric and geodetic control that is published and used for the determination, monumentation, or description of property boundaries;

-----Indiana. Seems pretty straight forward. Don't set any control.

-----Kentucky. Although it states that the control be used for determination of property boundaries, I would say that one could interpret that to mean for future use. So if unlicensed Joe-schmo sets a point and publishes it through NGS, then that point could be used, in the future, for establishing property boundaries. I am doubtful that Kentucky would do anything though.

If the data from a field exercise is for topographic, and/or engineering, and funded by tax dollars, then a professional needs to be responsible. Real property of course is professional. But, private interest, private funding, no impact to property or civil infrastructure, then it is what it is.