Received an email from NGS announcing the subject MOP. The site address for the publication is: https://ascelibrary.org/doi/book/10.1061/9780784416037?utm_medium=email&utm_source=GovDelivery
NGS email announcement and publication cost (both ebook and printed cost the same) copied below:
My two cents on this ??
Of the three editors, two are NGS employees. NGS both promotes and was involved in the publication. Not having read the publication, I cannot say whether it is a worthy contribution to the literature.
I do know that while I will likely buy it, I resent having to pay these high prices for the product of government employees. I have previously complained about the failure of government employees to publish journal articles using the ??Free Access? option.
I did notice that John Hamilton was shown as one of the reviewers. Perhaps he might pipe in on the merits of the publication?
Academic and professional publishers who rely on a system where they pay neither the authors nor reviewers (who often need to publish as part of tenure or other professional reasons), yet charge high fees for subscriptions or book purchases.
Spoiled by free access to journals in my former roles, I find the cost of journal articles and the like to be onerous.Perhaps I??m just cheap.
If NGS considers support for this publication to be part of its work to encourage and facilitate use of the NSRS, perhaps they should consider who will buy the text. NGS has previously published manuals many of which are available for free download. ?ÿ
In closing, charging the same for an eBook and a soft copy printed version is ridiculous even if the electronic version has navigation features. ?ÿ
Rant over,
?ÿ
DMM
?ÿ
Considering that 30 years ago, many of my college text books were up in that price range, this cost seems somewhat reasonable. In college, I had no choice over buying the books. At least some I could buy used at a reduced cost. This one is purely at the public's option whether to buy it or not.
In closing, charging the same for an eBook and a soft copy printed version is ridiculous even if the electronic version has navigation features. ?ÿ
Paper copies of a several hundred page book with low distribution have significant base costs before the printer and authors make any money.?ÿ But yeah, an ebook is nearly all gross income for somebody.
The publication is being sold through ASCE which is a private, and I assume a non-profit organization.?ÿ And is not a governmental agency.?ÿ When I purchased a copy of?ÿ The Manual of Surveying Instructions which was written by the?ÿ Bureau of Land Management I paid for it.?ÿ The Bureau is a Federal Agency.?ÿ I guess I see no difference than if I purchased something from a State Surveying Association.?ÿ I appreciate the efforts that these associations go to in providing publications such as this.
this cost seems somewhat reasonable.
Inflation adjusted this cost is comparable to what I was paying for college textbooks in the early '80s. And it is favorably comparable to?ÿ Ghilani's Elementary Surveying, and others.?ÿ
FWIW,
While my complaint seems to have interpreted to be the cost, I intended to challenge the use of government workers to provide content for commercial publication. It is inconsistent with past practice where the NGS published manuals of interest to the surveying/geodesy/mapping communities.
Some of the manuals available for free download are shown here:
I will note, as well, that entities like the USACE have an extensive set of manuals available for free download including the USACE NAVSTAR manual available for free download here: https://www.publications.usace.army.mil/USACE-Publications/Engineer-Manuals/u43544q/454D20313131302D312D31303033/
Of course, you could download this ??free? USACE manual from ASCE for $35.
See: https://ascelibrary.org/doi/pdf/10.1061/%28ASCE%290733-9453%281983%29109%3A2%2873%29?download=true
As the book??s page on the ASCEweb site includes the abstract for each chapter, it does not list the authors of each chapter. In my original post I mentioned the three editors include two current NGS employees.?ÿ
I have been happy to see NGS employees publish journal articles. Less happy to see that the option to publish as ??Open Access? has not been pursued. Maybe their budget could be increased for this purpose. See: https://www.degruyter.com/publishing/publications/openaccess ?ÿ
As for the cost of printing books/manuals/articles for small markets, why not solely provide electronic versions? If you want to print from the file, take it to one of the many printing services who also provide binding services.
Of course, there are always those who like to have impressive looking books on their desks and bookcases. Most likely unread.
I agree that the cost of the manual is consistent with other professional publications. I do not begrudge authors of technical texts their earnings. In fact, I have contacted authors to inform them of pirated digital versions of their works.
?ÿI await clarification.
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
@norman-oklahoma Have you read it already. I just got the email on it and already asked the boss (the wife) for my allowance to purchase. I want the book though.. I have almost every ngs publication over the years printed and placed in 3 ring binder??s. Something different about flipping through the pages and removing dust bunnies versus scrolling on computer screen.?ÿ
Those with an interest in the academic publishing industry might want to read: https://issues.org/how-academic-science-gave-its-soul-to-the-publishing-industry/
As the book??s page on the ASCEweb site includes the abstract for each chapter, it does not list the authors of each chapter. In my original post I mentioned the three editors include two current NGS employees.?ÿ
In case you are interested in knowing the authors of the sections, clicking the doi link at the bottom of the abstract opens a page with the author of the sections name.?ÿ I checked a few sections and at least one was Ghilani.
Have you read it already...
I'm learning about its existence right along with everyone else here. I agree about having a physical book. Kindle is OK for light reading, but a professional reference text needs to be paper and ink, IMO. Ideally I'd like to have it in both forms.
While my complaint seems to have interpreted to be the cost, I intended to challenge the use of government workers to provide content for commercial publication.
I'm guessing that those NGS publications happened because people were assigned the work of writing them.
I purchased the manual several weeks ago, but have not had the chance to read much of it. It lists me as a reviewer but I had a very minor part in the review. And I think the price is very fair for the amount of information that it provides.?ÿ
I would consider it to be an excellent textbook for a introductory survey class for Civil Engineers (which should be mandatory for all CE's). A not insignificant percentage of CE's graduate without ever having been exposed to a survey text or course. It has a lot of very good information to be a good reference manual, especially in what I consider to be engineering surveys, which of course is the purpose. And each chapter has references at the end.?ÿ?ÿ
I have an extensive collection of survey texts, and I have not found any of them to be the all-encompassing textbook that some here seem to think exists. The field is way too broad to be able to cover everything in a single book.?ÿ?ÿ
Thanks for the tip about finding the names of chapter authors. Lots of familiar, well-respected names. With chapter lengths running from 6 to 69 pages (and Dr Ghilani??s chapter on the analysis and adjustment of observation errors being only 21 pages) I doubt I??ll add this to my library.?ÿ
It appears that only three of the fifteen authors are from the NGS invalidating my original complaint.
?ÿ
I have had printed and bound some electronic books to satisfy my need to add comments, etc to the margins.?ÿ
I prefer electronic books because they are available to me whenever and wherever I am. With a searchable index they are arguably easier to navigate.
As I commented elsewhere in this thread, the chapters in the text are not long. Hopefully they are long enough. I have my doubts, for example, that a 21-page treatment of the analysis and adjustment of observation errors can cover what I consider necessary. Of course, I always seem to babble on??
?ÿ
?ÿ
I have had printed and bound some electronic books to satisfy my need to add comments, etc to the margins.?ÿ
I have put some of my printed textbooks on the scanner to produce pdf versions. It doesn't take as long as you might think.?ÿ
I prefer electronic books because they are available to me whenever and wherever I am.
I like the e-books because I can use the text to speech function and play the book through my trucks speaker system when driving.?ÿ However, I also like the paper copy because I'm not as efficient at digital highlighting if there is something I want to TRY to remember.
I was taking a course at University of Kentucky a few years back and purchased the text for the class in both versions.?ÿ That way I could highlight and refer to the paper copy easily AND I could listen to the chapters as a refresher on the 3.5 hour drive over to the class.
I came across a USGS Technical Manual, USGS TM11-D1 here: https://pubs.usgs.gov/tm/11d1/
I got this book(manual) "Surveying and Geomatics Engineering" in the mail yesterday. It has 15 chapters and each chapter has the author's name under the title.
This manual is for the surveying engineer as stated in several places in it. (It's not for a Surveyor ).
Chapter
1. Engineering Survey within?ÿ ASCE (by, Gene V. Roe) page 1 to 6
2. Geodesy and Geodetic Computations (by, Earl F. Burkholder) page 7 to 28
3. Map projections and local coordinate systems (by, Michael L. Dennis) page 29 to 84
4. Local, Regional, and Global Coordinate Transformations ( by, Michael L. Dennis) page 85 to 134
5. Analysis and Adjustment of Observational errors (by, Charles D. Ghilani) page 135 to 156
6. Satellite-Based Surveying Technology (by, Jan Van Sickle ) page 157 to 184
7. Leveling and Total stations (by, N.W.J. Hazelton) page 185 to 232
8. Terrestrial Laser Scanning (by, Michael J. Olsen) page 233 to 302
9. Mobile Terrestrial Laser Scanning and Mapping (by, Michael J. Olsen, Jaehoon Jung, Erzhuo Che, Chris Parrish) page 303 to 330.
10. Aerial Surveying Technology (by, Michael J. Starek, Benjamin E. Wilkinson) page 341 to 389
11. Survey Control ( by, Daniel Gillins) page 393 to 424
12.. Construction Surveys (by, Marlee A. Walton) page 425 to 450
13. Survey Records (by, Andrew C. Kellie) page 441 to 450
14. Information Systems in Civil Engineering (by, Yelda Turkan, Dimitrios Bolkas, Jaehoon Jung, Matthew S. O'banion, Michael Bunn) page 451 to 488
15. Professional Services and Design Professionals Agreements (by, David E. Woolley, Lisa D. Herzog) page 489 to 536
After each chapter is a list of references
In my opinion don't waste your money on this manual unless you are a " surveying engineer". Most of what is in this manual
can be found for FREE at NGS or by internet search.
?ÿ
JOHN NOLTON
?ÿ
?ÿ
As I said, I think it would be a good text for a survey course in a CE curriculum. Not to make a civil engineer into a "surveying engineer", but rather to introduce the engineering student to the subject. To me it is an absolute travesty that many CE students graduate with no exposure at all to survey topics.?ÿ