Apparently it is doable using logarithms and was practiced in the early 1900s.?ÿ From a '50s journal:
Table 4 shows the logarithmic method commonly used in the field for computing survey notes. One advantage is that all work is recorded thus permitting checks on all steps in the calculation. However it will be noted that for each course it is necessary to look up three logarithms and two anti logarithms found on at least four different pages of the log tables. Seven eight or even nine digit figures must be written five times for each course followed by two additions and a search for two antilogarithms. Also interpolation is necessary with seven place logs to get the same accuracy afforded by the Traverse Tables.
If this is what the exam question was referring to, then we must assume the log tables also had log-trig tables.?ÿ Note in the picture there are no angles - they have already been looked up in the log-trig tables to enter in the array of numbers.
It is a pretty stupid question to say they lost the trig tables but have logs and even log-trigs.?ÿ I've always seen them in the same book.?ÿ Why didn't they just instruct the test-taker to work the problem using log-trig tables?
But you referred to 5 pages.?ÿ My 5-place log tables occupy 18 pages and 6-place log-trig tables occupy 46 pages, and I would have to do some checking to see if those are accurate enough.
It does remind me of an old engineering entrance exam question: How would you measure the height of a 5-story building using an aneroid barometer? One answer was: I would lower the barometer on a string and measure the string.
I'm not sure I remember all the methods, but they included swinging the barometer at the end of a string so it just missed the ground and measuring the period of the pendulum.?ÿ Drop the barometer and time its fall.?ÿ Measure the shadow of the barometer and of the building and use the ratio. The best one was go to the janitor and say, "I'll give you this nice barometer if you can tell me how high the building is."
I might add that I'm ancient enough that I used such tables to do trig problems as a senior in high school 1967-68.
My teacher found us a good deal on the CRC Standard Mathematical Tables and I still have that book, covers not quite worn off.?ÿ One of my proudest moments that year was sending a correction (a digit in the reciprocals of factorials) to the editor and getting a thank-you note.
I had two long-term clients who routinely sent us hundreds of miles one-way for half day jobs. It was easier and cheaper than dealing with getting a local up to speed. I picked up one state license to cover 2 days of work per year...
That reminds me of when my sons were in middle school and the curriculum was mostly to teach the students how to take a test rather than educate them on the subject.
They were far more interested in getting students passing percentages higher for the national placement test than actually knowing if the students could read and write.
It could be it was a few log-trig table pages presented as part of the test question but I doubt it based on my failing memory. It was 45 years ago when I took the test. I could do a traverse reduction using log-trig tables back then no problem, they were in the back of the Write-in-the Rain fieldbooks. But using straight logarithms as opposed to log/trig tables was a show stopper. Agreed they picked the only salient pages from the log tables which if only 5 pages is doubtful. So you may be right.
The cool thing is you can reduce a traverse using only pencil, a trig table of logarithms and paper, in a few minutes in the field. Is that still worthy of being taught?
I've got a CRC Standard Mathematical Tables book and refer to it sometimes when math becomes a question. Kudos for finding an error; I treat it as gospel.
I've got a CRC Standard Mathematical Tables book and refer to it sometimes when math becomes a question.?ÿ Kudos for finding an error; I treat it as gospel.
That was many many editions ago.?ÿ They have rearranged the contents somewhat since.?ÿ I still refer to it for trig identities (I only remember a few of the most-used now) or to look up a probability value.?ÿ Not many other numerical values I can't get out of a calculator, and even normal probability is in a spreadsheet.
I got mine when I was a sophomore in high school, 1960 or 1961. Trig functions, integrals and derivatives and normal distribution through math degree in college. More statistics and random numbers in the early actuarial exams, then back to statistical distributions for two semesters in MBA school.
Cover is taped at the spine and front and back inside covers contain many notes, page numbers and other stuff. When power ball gets above $400 million, I use the random number table to generate 5 numbers for a one-time shot at the big bucks.
Otherwise, it gathers dust, and it will probably go to the dump when I go to the grave, but it has a rich history.
Different expectations depending where you work, 140 miles passes the distance to for us to stay over, but just barely. I would surely expect to work all day onsite for a job that close. Travel time is minimal depending how far from a highway it is.
My major problem with a question like this is that you are going to a construction site,,,,,,,,there are piles and clearly need for elevations,,,,,,,you don't have your own level?
It's one of those do you save your wife or your child from drowning type of questions, probably not appropriate for the real test. I agree with the OP that's it's a poor question.
Your Honor, my case is like a three legged stool...
Today I would not accept a job 140 miles from base unless it was a freebie for a dear friend and those are in short supply so not too likely.?ÿ Why anyone would want me to travel that far to do such a small job is silly.
This job I spoke of was a multi year Corps of Engineers job.?ÿ The contractor had staff layout people to do most of the heavy lifting, but they were contractually obligated to have a PLS lay hands on certain elements of the job. And there was simply nobody near qualified outside of the OKC Metro area. Our fees were a drop in the reservoir compared to the project budget. So they paid us to drive up there as needed and never a murmur about the charges. There was some murmuring about scheduling. When they needed us, they needed us without delay. That's the heavy construction game.?ÿ
In the scenario presented in the OP, it is easy for me to imagine a remote site, a contractual need to have a PLS supervise the routine job of topo'ing for volumes, a large volume of earth be moved - meaning charges by the contractor that dwarf the surveyors charges even when fully costed for a 3 person crew from door to door. Easy to imagine because I've been there, done that. And not just on that one job.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
Let me say that I've heard a lot of complaining on these pages about the low prices people are getting for their surveying. Then we have an example of survey work were clients barely ask in advance what the charge will be and then pay whatever is invoiced without a murmur.?ÿ And then I hear "I'd?ÿ never do that kind of work...".?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ
True. But, that's just me. It has much more to do with the pain I suffer when driving for more than about one hour. Must stop, get out, walk around for several minutes, wait for the discomfort to fade, then start out again. Our trip to Florida last year about did me in. This is also why I have no interest in flying much of anywhere. Besides, I always have at least six to eight weeks of work ahead of me. So, I get the pleasure of picking and choosing what jobs to agree to take on. I fully understand that my personal situation is not representative of a great number of the participants here. The other factor is the other responsibilities that I have that give me plenty of reasons to stay close to home. It is what works for me................not what might apply to others.
Many years ago I traveled regularly to many places around the US for work. Later, I traveled somewhat extensively in-state. Now, I will gladly let others have those experiences. It has been over 20 years since I agreed to work a project more than about one hour from home. I regularly refer those callers to other qualified consultants.
I wish nothing but the best for those of you who are happy doing things differently from the way I do them now. What works for one does not work for all. However, you will continue to find me griping about people who blow in from Timbuktu and screw things up in a locality for which they have no previous experience with respect to boundary surveying. They really need to consult with a local surveyor who can help them tremendously with information to do the job correctly. I make such calls myself from time to time to other consultants who I know have more knowledge on certain locations.
I just cannot understand that. What about from a professional standpoint? Isn't that more important?
If you can keep your calendar full with close in jobs, then more power to you. My comment wasn't addressed at you, certainly not exclusively.
I've done several jobs over the years, some recently, that were way outside my usual operating radius for various reasons. When I do I figure in the drive time and only go with client informed consent and approval (ie/a contract). I have funneled other such jobs to more local surveyors. I'm not one who grabs everything that comes my way. But sometimes it is worth it to the client to just have me take care of things. Not every client is out to trim survey costs to the bone.
Ah yes, I remember this question from when I took the test in July.?ÿ I had no idea what a dumpy level is actually so right away I was like what the hell...??ÿ I think I answered C because my spider sense was telling me that's what they wanted to hear, but what B is probably what I'd actually do.
