Please, nobody turn this political.
But, we ARE surveyors. We HAVE investigative skills. We CAN be objective. We can look at facts. We can honestly question stories. It's what we do for a living.
I grew up believing that we did go. My neighbor challenged my thinking. He said we did not go in 1969. But, that we probably did go in 1972, or so.
There's lots of theories. The van allen belt, etc.
At this point, I'd say we probably either never went, or that we sent a robot.
But, I cannot say for certain.
As a kid, I dreamt of running a rock waggon, to the moon and back, and selling moon rocks for a living!
Keep this thread cheerful, and friendly.
Thank you for your arguments, and opinions. Please keep them professional.
Nate
Not gonna touch this one...................
You would think that it were all faked that some of the astronauts would write up a tell book outlining the fraud. Maybe that's out there and I missed it but I am very doubtful that the government is skilled and cohesive enough to pull that off. Not saying that it's impossible just very unlikely.
My basic list of reasons that i doubt it:
So many complex components, that had to go right.
No burn / blast crater under the luner lander.
The moon "rotates with the earth", always presenting the same face towards earth.
The photograph of earth, with the luner surface, does not agree with where they landed. Unless they travled nearly 1/4 way around the moon, for that pic.
I don't think govt. Covered it up. I think NASA did.
The known complications, with rendezvous of the lander, back with the orbiting unit, are enormous.
Due to the political pressures of the time, they sure had motive to fake it.
And,
Why have we not been back?
I'd still like to start a lunar rock shop.
🙂
N
I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that we went to the moon, landed on it, and returned safely.
But, then again, I am a bit gullible. 😉
In order to have faked the moon landing a lot of people would have been involved, and they all would have had to keep the secret (and their many cover stories mutually compatible) for 48 years. To me that is far more inconceivable than landing on the moon.
Mark Mayer, post: 450818, member: 424 wrote: In order to have faked the moon landing a lot of people would have been involved, and they all would have had to keep the secret (and their many cover stories mutually compatible) for 48 years. To me that is far more inconceivable than landing on the moon.
That is so true. Someone (B. Franklin?) was once quoted as saying, "Three people can keep a secret only if two of them are dead.."
I would never question the integrity of Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, or Mike Collins. We went to the moon 6 times with manned trips.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 450788, member: 291 wrote: The photograph of earth, with the luner surface, does not agree with where they landed. Unless they travled nearly 1/4 way around the moon, for that pic.
I'm pretty sure the famous Earth rise picture was from the Lunar Orbiter as it was still orbiting the moon and not from the Lunar surface.
Nate may have a point. I did spend a good deal of time on the moon back in the late sixties and early seventies. I don't remember seeing any astronauts or anything like that...
Preponderance of evidence. Very little evidence to the contrary, just speculation. Too many people to keep a secret. Communications delay showing they were at moon's distance. Not only the astronauts and inner NASA people, but also those that bounced lasers off the reflector at the landing sites shortly afterward (showing a much better return than the moon surface itself).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
Nate The Surveyor, post: 450788, member: 291 wrote: So many complex components, that had to go right.
Things didn't always go right on space missions.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 450788, member: 291 wrote: Why have we not been back?
Lack of political will for funding. NASA wants to do something different with the little money they get.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 450788, member: 291 wrote: My basic list of reasons that i doubt it:
So many complex components, that had to go right.
No burn / blast crater under the luner lander.
The moon "rotates with the earth", always presenting the same face towards earth.
The photograph of earth, with the luner surface, does not agree with where they landed. Unless they travled nearly 1/4 way around the moon, for that pic.
I don't think govt. Covered it up. I think NASA did.
The known complications, with rendezvous of the lander, back with the orbiting unit, are enormous.
Due to the political pressures of the time, they sure had motive to fake it.
And,
Why have we not been back?
I'd still like to start a lunar rock shop.
🙂
N
I shouldn't do this, but I am...just can't help myself.
"So many complex components, that had to go right."
Ever heard about Apollo 1 (Grissom, Chafe & White)? Ever heard about Apollo 13? Ever heard of Challenger? Ever heard of Columbia? Ever heard of Spaceship 2? And those are just the ones involving human deaths. the list of spacecraft failures is too long to list...There were many disasters.
"The moon "rotates with the earth", always presenting the same face towards earth."
That is correct. What does that have to do with your topic?
"The photograph of earth, with the luner(sic) surface,...)
Which photograph are you referring to? If it is the famous "Earthrise" photo, I have personally seen the original negative (and others), and I can assure you it is legitimate.
"The known complications, with rendezvous of the lander, back with the orbiting unit, are enormous."
And the number of man-hours perfecting and practicing docking are staggering.
"Why have we not been back?"
Because we lack the will to do so, and the main focus now is Mars.
IMHO it would have been far, far more difficult to fake things than to do it.
Mark Mayer, post: 450818, member: 424 wrote: In order to have faked the moon landing a lot of people would have been involved, and they all would have had to keep the secret (and their many cover stories mutually compatible) for 48 years. To me that is far more inconceivable than landing on the moon.
This. And James Fleming's meme. We mock flat earthers because they lack the mathematical and scientific knowledge necessary to understand the overwhelming evidence. I think the same is true for moon landing deniers. If you don't believe the moon landings (or a given moon landing) happened, the first step might be to develop the math and science chops necessary to refute it. To date, nearly every scientist of sound mind believes that the moon landings occurred because they understand the evidence, and they also understand and refute all counterarguments based on a thorough understanding of the evidence.
paden cash, post: 450825, member: 20 wrote: Nate may have a point. I did spend a good deal of time on the moon back in the late sixties and early seventies. I don't remember seeing any astronauts or anything like that...
Relevant part:
"In the late sixties and early seventies. I don't remember." :p
Have you been watching Capricorn One?
Nate The Surveyor, post: 450763, member: 291 wrote: At this point, I'd say we probably either never went, or that we sent a robot.
Natester, are you SURE you just left that "wildwood weed" alone in a previous post you made? 😉
What I AM sure about is that the US Government is incapable of keeping the most simple secrets between two people, or even following an exact PLAN between two people, much less hundreds or thousands of people, who would have to follow the same plan, and keep the same secret. that seems impossible especially when there was no real reason to do so - I don't think JFK was going to fire anyone for not making it by the end of 1969. the other interesting development is that shortly after the moon landing (which I watched on a rabbit ears tv), the USSR landed their unmanned craft on the moon, and no one seems to dispute THAT as fact.
what IS possible in the US is that it takes only ONE conspiracy-minded individual with a pencil to start a world-wide conspiracy theory.
warren ward PLS CO OK, post: 451012, member: 12536 wrote: I don't think JFK was going to fire anyone for not making it by the end of 1969
There's a theory bandied about that he and Elvis are holed up in a Greenbriar, WV bunker, at the recommendation of a Rand corp. study, since after the Otober Missile Crisis.
R.J. Schneider, post: 451027, member: 409 wrote: There's a theory bandied about that he and Elvis are holed up in a Greenbriar, WV bunker, at the recommendation of a Rand corp. study, since after the Otober Missile Crisis.
The Templars landed on the moon in 1290.
