Ring-ring
"Survey Office, this is Paden."
"Yes. Mr. Cash? This is William Fold. I recently purchased a piece of property that your firm had recently surveyed. The address is 1191 Dripping Springs Dr. Do you recall the survey?"
"Uh...yes, I believe I did that for the Gregory Family Trust. What can I do for you?"
"Yes. We dealt with Mr. Gregory. We purchased the property in January and he gave me a copy of your survey, uh, a pdf file. I had given that to my architect and he has now told me there is something missing on the survey. Maybe you can help."
"Well, I hope so. The title company required an ALTA survey of that property and there is a lot of stuff on there. What is it that is missing?"
"I've got some notes here...let me see..uh, the architect says there is suppose to be some 'elevation contours' on the map. Do you know what he's talking about? He suggested I contact you in case you had maybe inadvertently left something off."
"Mr. Fold., there are no contours on the drawing, and there were never any that were suppose to be on there. In talking with Mr. Garland and the title company it was decided that since it was undeveloped property with no man-made drainage, no topography elevations would be required. The location of the section line road, the culverts, poles and utilities are all shown as I located them, but ground elevations were not required by the client at the time of the survey. (I have the drawing open by now) AND I remember and see I stated on the survey that the property is well distant from any FEMA designated flood prone areas. I'm sorry, but no "contours" were part of the survey."
"Well my architect says he needs them to finish my house plans. He says that all surveys are suppose to have them on there."
(Blood pressure approaching 170/110) "Mr. Fold. I'm sure your architect is doing the best he can. But unless the original agreement with my client INCLUDED instructions to provide topography on the site that work wouldn't be performed. I'm glad an architect knows so much about the surveying business."
"So you can't just provide me with the contours the architect needs?"
"No Sir, I can't. Your architect provided me no help whatsoever with the survey. The specifics of the survey were agreed upon by the parties that paid for the survey. I can understand his needs, but you and your architect weren't even part of the grand scheme when I was involved. Mr. Garland and his family wished to create and sell three residential lots from part of their property out there. I would be more than willing to talk about providing that info...."
"Are you talking about charging money for this information? My God, you've ALREADY surveyed it! How can you justify charging someone twice for work you've already done? I'm betting there is a law against that!"
(volume and BP both elevated) "Mr. Fold, I'm starting to loose patience with you. First off, I performed this work for others, not yourself, and I damned sure didn't do it for your fool architect. A topography survey is something different that a boundary survey. One can be done in conjunction with the other, but that WAS NOT REQUESTED AT THE TIME! Quit wasting my time and trying to get something for free. Good day, sir." click... I hung up.
One hour later:
Ring-ring
"Survey Office, this is Paden."
"Yes. Mr. Cash? This is William Fold again. I realize I probably made you mad and I'm sorry. I called a couple of other surveyors and they told me pretty much what you had said. Is there any way I can talk you into doing the topography thing on that property?"
(I inhaled for a good 10 seconds..)
"Mr. Fold, this information is to be used by your architect, am I correct?"
"Yes. He needs it to complete my house plans."
"I'm going to have to decline Mr. Fold, as a general rule I try and stay as far away as I can from architects. I'm betting one of those other surveyors you called earlier would probably be willing to help you. Sorry."
I didn't even wait for him to reply. Sometimes turning work down is the best part of the day...why ruin it? 😉
It feels so good
[MEDIA=youtube]1AIu7SqX_UI[/MEDIA]
A wise man on this message board has taught me that I never lost on a job I did not take. Well done friend. Thank you for sharing. It is so good to know that we are not alone.
If I knew who that architect was, I'd be giving him a call.
Tommy Young, post: 364850, member: 703 wrote: If I knew who that architect was, I'd be giving him a call.
I do know.
It ain't worth it...
I can see your frustration with the ÛÏunlearnedÛ client they usually donÛªt know any better and always think you are out to rip them off.
I donÛªt have problems with my clients, however, I do have lots of ÛÏfunÛ with their architects. Some of them think they could have mentored Frank Lloyd Wright so when a lowly ignorant Surveyor such as me points out the house dimensions do not add up correctly and thus cannot be staked out correctly for the form crews they go nuts. I have been accused of not knowing how to reads plans, not knowing basic arithmetic etc. After they finish ranting and foaming at the mouth they will usually grunt something to the effect they will have their ÛÏpeopleÛ check into it. How dare a Surveyor insinuate an architect did something wrong! Perish the thought!
Usually a few days later I will receive a ÛÏrevisedÛ house plan via email. No cover letter or explanation just the corrected plans. They, the artichokes, donÛªt hesitate to crucify survey plats, so I absolutely cherish the moment I can point out something wrong with their plans.
Notice to Architects: Make my day. B-)
paden cash, post: 364792, member: 20 wrote: He says that all surveys are suppose to have them on there.
I'm guessing that Mr. Fold misunderstood, or selectively heard, something the architect said. Architects know better than that. I work with architects a lot. They definitely have a different viewpoint than surveyors, but they aren't irrational.
Mark Mayer, post: 364900, member: 424 wrote: I work with architects a lot. They definitely have a different viewpoint than surveyors, but they aren't irrational.
There are no chords in modernist architecture, only lines - lines that may come to an end, but that achieve no closure
-Roger Scruton
James Fleming, post: 364905, member: 136 wrote:
There are no chords in modernist architecture, only lines - lines that may come to an end, but that achieve no closure
-Roger Scruton
( I'm waiting for [USER=424]@Mark Mayer[/USER]) to say, "Touche' "
FL/GA PLS., post: 364887, member: 379 wrote: ....Some of them think they could have mentored Frank Lloyd Wright so when a lowly ignorant Surveyor such as me points out the house dimensions do not add up correctly and thus cannot be staked out correctly for the form crews they go nuts.....
One of the biggest holes in my gizzard was caused by an architect and has a lot to do with why I won't be in the same room as most of them.
I was retained to provide construction staking on a large church site once-upon-a-time. The basic plan was more or less a partial pentagon with all the parking as perimeter with all sorts of crazy angles. The building corners required quite a few "updates" and the parking got worse. When it was said and done I ate $6K worth of curb and gutter because that idiot didn't know sh*t from shoeshine and couldn't make 2 + 2 equal 4....
I better stop, my nitro pills are at the house.....
Rankin_File, post: 364907, member: 101 wrote: ( I'm waiting for [USER=424]@Mark Mayer[/USER]) to say, "Touche' "
Actually I work with a lot of architects too (and started college as an architecture major) and very rarely have problems with them...but if he's going to telegraph the fastball low and inside, I'm going to swing for the fence 😀
I priced a job for a client who is seeking grants to fund a project. Said client has an architect. I sent the original survey to them to test the data compatibility. No response. I contacted and asked how that info clicked with their software. Architect got back and asked, "What's the deal with the update to the map? When can we expect the update?" I responded, "I wasn't hired yet. They are looking for funding. I just wanted to find out if we can work together." Architects are a PITA!
mattharnett, post: 364980, member: 6458 wrote: I priced a job for a client who is seeking grants to fund a project. Said client has an architect. I sent the original survey to them to test the data compatibility. No response. I contacted and asked how that info clicked with their software. Architect got back and asked, "What's the deal with the update to the map? When can we expect the update?" I responded, "I wasn't hired yet. They are looking for funding. I just wanted to find out if we can work together." Architects are a PITA!
99% of the time, the files the architect supplies you will not match your data and the important data has been erased leaving you more work to do that was not anticipated.......
When a client mentions that I will be working with their architect, the fee goes up accordingly.
:gammon:
James Fleming, post: 364905, member: 136 wrote:
There are no chords in modernist architecture, only lines - lines that may come to an end, but that achieve no closure
-Roger Scruton
Jim-
I believe you've posted a pic of one of the ugliest 'new architecture' buildings' addition at the Royal Ontario Museum "sold" as an architectural wonder to a bunch of nitwits.
If nothing more, the *rap aerosol from the passing traffic on Bloor Street at Avenue Road in Toronto must be a challenge to keep all the glass clean.
Some architects do have common sense others ........................
YOS
DGG
Mr. Fold all architects know everything about everything. I am sure he is fully capable of drawing the contours on the pdf with his crayons from memory. You may want to ask him why he is not providing this standard service.
My brother in law is an archytech, but other than that I like him just fine.
2 Architects in my family, son in law spent many years with low cost housing. Daughter in law a more varied history. Both are more akin to artists than engineers, conceptual views of the world. Builders make it happen on the ground.
The natural order of things...
Too many architects only think they live in the real world. They are incapable of proving it by their actions.
Back when I worked in the private one of the Architects we worked with a lot had a personalized license plate on his car RKTEK
A few I have met are very meticulous, dimensions add up, etc.
If you have to work with an architect, make it a landscape architect! I have found them to be very easy to work with.