..was from one of my grunt employees.?ÿ And I'd like to share this with you all.?ÿ Maybe it can help someone else.
I guess it was about sixteen or seventeen years ago I hired a college kid as a "helper" position for the summer.?ÿ He was OK I guess.?ÿ I mean he showed up on time and did what he was instructed.?ÿ At the end of summer he thanked me for the summer employment.?ÿ He also noted it took a certain kind of person to enjoy surveying..and he was NOT one of those people.?ÿ He told me clearing line, slamming hubs and walking and sweating in the heat were no fun for him.?ÿ I asked him in what field he planned on majoring.?ÿ He shrugged and said something like "business".
About three years later I ran into him one summer morning at a convenience store.?ÿ He was close to graduating but had his eye on a master's degree.?ÿ He was also looking for summer work.?ÿ I offered to hire him as a field hand again.?ÿ He said no. He was into business management and had a few offers along those lines. We parted.
A few weeks later he called me up. All his offers had fallen through. He was needing some income and offered to come back to work in the field. I told him to drop by my office and we'd talk.
He dropped by at lunch. I was busy trying to get my billing together. We got to talking about the software I was using. Admittedly it did a whole lot more than just keep track of time and billing, but I didn't have the time to take to learn it. After about a half hour discussion I realized this young man could help me out a lot...but not in the field.
I hired him to set up my bookkeeping and time sheets. He did a bang-up job and seemed to like it. Being a small office his desk was close to mine and within a month he had picked up on a lot my conversations with clients. He had actually started looking at my business from the management end of things. At first he was reluctant to critique the operation but I was fascinated with his input.
He told me what little business model I had was not healthy. His opinion was all I did was provide a service to my clients. I told him that was exactly what I did. He went on to explain I wasn't really in business for me, but for my clients. Over a period of a few weeks he got me to understand minimizing liability, the importance of a cash flow, managing employees and assets and ultimately providing a profit for the organization.
I had to admit I was running my outfit just like all the other places I had ever worked. You know, set up an office, buy some gear, hire some guys, survey something and then send out an invoice. He made me realize there is so much more to it than just that.
He asked me what kind of jobs cost the least to complete and provided the biggest return on investment with the least amount of exposure to liability. I had to admit I had no specific idea so I let him pour over a couple of years of my work.
He came up with a few different scenarios. One that stuck with me was preparing RW documents. His suggestion was to focus in those areas and see if I could cultivate a client base.
He eventually got his MBA and went to work on the coast for someone big. It took a while but I eventually got in with a couple of municipalities and utility companies and started providing RW services. The last 15 years have worked out great. It took a summer hired hand to convince me it's OK to be in the surveying business primarily to make money.
After all those years I wished I had started sooner!?ÿ ?ÿThe best advice I ever got was from someone that couldn't stand to survey.?ÿ 😉
sound advice for sure. I needed to hear this - thank you for sharing
Listening is different from hearing.?ÿ You listened.?ÿ Good for you.
Some good advice. I need to look at my operation to make sure I am making enough to protect my liability.
Thanks for the story.
Once upon a time, in a parallel universe, I had the similar experience well more like an epiphany. My brother-in-law and myself formed a competition BBQ team and competed within the KCBS (Kansas City BBQ Society). We loved to cook, drink beer together, and thought we cooked some good stuff. Well, for the first three years or so we couldn't break into the top 25% of the winning teams. At one competition we chatted with a very "large" judge who had been scoring teams for years. He talked for about 30 mins. on what he thought good BBQ should taste like, what it should look like and explained to us that you only get one bite to get their attention.
Then it hit us...All these years we had been cooking BBQ they way we liked it. We took a new approach the next season. We cooked BBQ they way he described. Very sweet, and I mean sweet like candy with a light red hue - not too dark. We finished in the top 10 teams nationwide for a few years in a row and realized all you have to do is cook the style that will win and not what you like.?ÿ
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N10,000, E7,000, Z100.00
PLS - IL, MO, AR, KS, MN, KY
Listening is different from hearing..
Ain't it though!
His opinion was all I did was provide a service to my clients. I told him that was exactly what I did. He went on to explain I wasn't really in business for me, but for my clients.
Excellent reminder. ?ÿThank you.
what kind of jobs cost the least to complete and provided the biggest return on investment with the least amount of exposure to liability.
It took 2-3 years in business for myself to figure out that bright flash of the obvious. Turned out to be construction surveying that had the highest profit hands down. After 30+ years in construction I have never once regretted the decision. ?????ÿ
It took 2-3 years in business for myself to figure out that bright flash of the obvious. Turned out to be construction surveying that had the highest profit hands down. After 30+ years in construction I have never once regretted the decision. ?????ÿ
I too spent years construction staking.?ÿ There was always work and I was good at it.?ÿ I'm not so sure I agree with your "highest profit" comment, but there is money there.
Simply put I think construction layout is some of the most labor intensive and liability wrought work around.?ÿ And the frustration factor dealing with the people in the food chain was sky-high.?ÿ I left it alone years ago so the young'ns that are worried about equipment payments could have something to do.
No 'grets here either.?ÿ ;)?ÿ?ÿ
Excellent post Paden. We should all be listening with an open mind for opportunity. Rarely does it present itself forthright. A long time ago I was starting out on my own at a very young age trying to make it in sales. Didn't have any skills or advanced education to speak of and to be honest I was getting the snot kicked out of me. I'd talked my way into a job with an investment firm and after six months approached the principles to give me a chance at what they refer to as a 'closer'. They laughed and said sure but you will be commission only. After nearly six weeks of beating my head against the wall and not a penny to show for it, I was pitching an old man in the Midwest on one financial product or another and at the end of my pitch, he said something that just knocked all the wind out of my sails. " You don't know a damn thing about what you're talking about and you haven't listened to a word I've said" and hung up on me. I left that day having never felt so defeated in all my young life. Went home and wanted nothing more than to quit, but his words kept ringing in my ears. The next morning I went back and hit it again, maybe I'm just stubborn and I just wasn't ready to admit defeat. With his words still ringing in my ears, I decided to take a different approach and began asking more questions, and then shutting up and really listening to what people had to say. I discovered that if I did that, people would tell me what they really needed and wanted and that was the missing key on how to sell them. That lesson has served me very well over the years. I closed my first deal that very next day and went on to do very well over the next decade until deciding that wasn't the profession I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing. Working with clients and really listening to identify their wants and needs has created more opportunities than I can shake a stick at and helped me to identify the traps to avoid.?ÿ
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Once I made it to the top of the hill (enough money to cover the essentials) in life I started to think about why some jobs seemed so tough and others seemed so much better.?ÿ It turned out most of the jobs I had disliked involved working for anonymous entities.?ÿ The jobs I liked normally involved meeting with the client directly and discussing why they needed it done.?ÿ I was making roughly the same profit from both types of jobs but struggled completing the ones I didn't like.?ÿ To put it simply, I liked helping people directly.?ÿ So, construction staking all but completely left the list of jobs I would take on.?ÿ Jobs that go on for weeks and months to complete were also eliminated.?ÿ That left my personal bread and butter, the little guys who need help for one reason or another.
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To put it simply, I liked helping people directly.
I feel the same way.
*******
There used to be a large consulting firm in OKC that had scads of surveying work but never kept their own crews.?ÿ And they had a habit of handing out work to almost every survey outfit in town.?ÿ Getting repeat work from their engineers was a sign you had "made it".
I turned some work in one day and discussed it with the engineer.?ÿ Afterwords I mentioned to him I appreciated the return work and wondered if there was anything I could do any better.
He replied that he felt all the survey firms were about the same: same price, same quality and same turnaround time.?ÿ He told me he gave me work because he just enjoyed talking with me.
Learned something that day about clients and people in general.
There's a lot more to it than money. Don't get me wrong; money surely helps. But at the end of the day, when you get a thank you so much, from a client you were able to help. Means a lot more to me than money.
One of the first things my first mentor said to me was; do a good job first, and the money will come.
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He was right...
I too spent years construction staking.?ÿ There was always work and I was good at it.?ÿ I'm not so sure I agree with your "highest profit" comment, but there is money there.
Simply put I think construction layout is some of the most labor intensive and liability wrought work around.?ÿ And the frustration factor dealing with the people in the food chain was sky-high.?ÿ I left it alone years ago so the young'ns that are worried about equipment payments could have something to do.
No 'grets here either.?ÿ ?????ÿ?ÿ
Agreed.?ÿ Glad to have it in my rear view mirror (mostly) at 51-years old...
Forgive an ancient surveyor whose idea of "construction surveying" amounts to house layout 90% of the time and the rest involving water/sewer/paving/drainage layout and as built's. Production houses are easy to catch a mistake on before they become troublesome financially.
And Bud you're spot on about liabilities. I wonder how much it would cost to replace a 350' run of curbing/sewer/drainage etc. today? Curbing wasn't cheap when I had to. ?????ÿ
I wonder how much it would cost to replace a 350' run of curbing/sewer/drainage etc. today?
!5 years ago the contractor wanted $12K.?ÿ I got him down to his cost of the mud and $3K for a day with a ground lumper, front-loader and haul truck.
The architect and I split the cost...
One thing I attempt to do with clients is find some way that they will remember me in a positive way, usually not directly tied to the project itself.?ÿ For example, yesterday my client was a college professor who mainly teaches chemistry classes.?ÿ Shortly before we loaded up to leave I told him a little story from five or six years back when I had a brilliant young fellow working with me.?ÿ It was the end of the day and we, plus my wife, were sitting in lawn chairs on the breezeway.?ÿ Somehow the conversation came to the chemistry class he was taking.?ÿ I told him that despite being required to complete so many hours of it, I had no real need for all of that specific knowledge today.?ÿ I added that I couldn't even remember Avogadro's number except that it was huge and was some number times ten to the 23rd power.?ÿ He immediately reeled off the correct number.?ÿ Sometime later my wife was chatting with someone and complained how she couldn't understand half of what my helper and I talked about when it was technical in nature.?ÿ She added that one day we had been talking about Avocado's number, whatever that is.
I can picture the professor using that term in class just to see if any of his students are actually listening to his presentation.
@paden-cash ten years ago my E&O paid about $35k. ?ÿI asked around, it cost about $7k. ?ÿRight in line with my fee which I offered to eat. ?ÿThis contractor (his email signature line told what a good particular religious fella he was) had a reputation for making his profits on jobs from E&O claims.
22 likes on the op
Pretty good. Maybe nominate this for post of the month/or 6 mos? Or the like?
I would suggest that we have a top post of the year, and that we make a collection of the "post of the year", and that the post of the year gets .... Hmm what?
What should the winner get??ÿ
Nate
What should the winner get?
The most ??likes.?