Like most states, California has a ??Right of Entry?? provision allowing land surveyors to go on private property to conduct surveys.?ÿ This is in Section 8774 (a) of the ??Professional Land Surveyors?? Act?.?ÿ?ÿ In the past, if I had access trouble I would discuss this with the neighbor and often supply a copy of the Act. This would typically be all that was required.?ÿ
I currently have a case, in a very expensive part of town, where the neighbor is an attorney and is aware of the Right of Entry law but still told me that I do not have permission to go on his property.?ÿ?ÿ Does my obligation to my client require that I force this issue, perhaps in court with the attorney neighbor??ÿ Perhaps by simply going on his property, whether or not I have his permission (after all, I have permission of the law)? And when the police come to arrest me show them a copy of the Land Surveyors?? Act before they put the cuffs on??ÿ
Maybe my obligation ends at the point where I clarify the legal situation with my client, and if he wants to proceed with legal action, that is his decision, risk, and cost.?ÿ?ÿ Any suggested course of action would be appreciated.
If you need to enter the attorney's property to complete a boundary survey for your client you do have an obligation to push the issue; however, you don't need to do it on your own. Your may need to enlist the help of your client.?ÿ
If you are going to enter and the attorney is still refusing to "allow" your work. I would notify the police beforehand. That should help keep you out of handcuffs and may result in an armed wsocort?ÿ if you suspect the attorney will try to use physical force. I have had to resort police esort a couple of times.
In all my years, this has never been a problem.?ÿ Lawyers love to hire themselves to tilt at windmills as it costs them practically nothing and they get to delay things while frustrating everyone else involved.
Some people are born to be irritations to mankind.?ÿ Some of those people attend law school.?ÿ Some of those people pass the bar examinations.?ÿ You have found that exception to the exception to the exception.
I would pit one attorney against the other with the client's money to enforce the ability to do whatever is required to complete the survey correctly.
I'd also lean on the board and push them for some overarching advice on how they'll support you enforcing the rights and responsibilities of the license and practice under the statute.?ÿ This would be a great time for the board to provide guidance and promote the process.
They can do more than just validating applications and invoking investigations of complaints from the public. Yeah. Ask the board. This should be something they can assist with, IMNSHO. ?????ÿ
At the very least I think a call to the attorney general to complain about the attorney who is acting in bad faith and directly violating the state statutory frame work in deference to it's established and codified intent.
Have your client call the police and ask them to meet you onsite. Give the officer a copy of the Statute and let him deal with the neighbor.
I'd also lean on the board and push them for some overarching advice on how they'll support you enforcing the rights and responsibilities of the license and practice under the statute.?ÿ
Note that in CA the right of entry appears not just in the Business and Professions Code, but also in the Civil Code and the Penal Code.?ÿ This was done so that the police can verify the right of entry without having to look through an unfamiliar code.
Seems like they've been doing this a lot longer than they ever anticipated I suppose.?ÿ Its good to see they support the process.
I currently have a case, in a very expensive part of town, where the neighbor is an attorney and is aware of the Right of Entry law but still told me that I do not have permission to go on his property.?ÿ
You don't have his permission, but you do have the statutory right to enter. Just make sure that you cross all the "t"s and dot all the "i"s with regards to notification.?ÿ
The cops may show up at your door with a search warrant. They don't have your permission, but they are coming in.?ÿ?ÿ
If you enter with the owners permission and trip over?ÿ his garden rake, he could be liable. If you enter without permission and injure yourself, he can hardly be blamed. Remember that you are dealing with an attorney, and attorneys think that way.?ÿ ?ÿ
Owners have duties to all trespassers. The duty escalates from trespasser to licensee/invitee to lessor. He may be trying to set his liability bar lower by forcing you to the status of trespasser.
I would ask my local jurisdiction for a civil standby. It isn't a given they will cooperate but it's worth a try.
I'd also lean on the board and push them for some overarching advice on how they'll support you enforcing the rights and responsibilities of the license and practice under the statute.?ÿ
Note that in CA the right of entry appears not just in the Business and Professions Code, but also in the Civil Code and the Penal Code.?ÿ This was done so that the police can verify the right of entry without having to look through an unfamiliar code.
602.8 Penal Code
846.5 Civil Code
@spmpls?ÿ
I'm sure this is covered in the state specific test right?
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Certainly game to be. With multiple choice computer based testing, little details like this are fair game, but code and law citations have always been part of the California exam (back to 1985 at least).
One year when I was grading, the question/answer included a citation. The examinee cited the correct code, but the section number was incorrect based on the current version of the code. It was determined it was from a version from a few years back. The grading team conferred and agreed that the answer was incorrect because we should always be working from the current versions of code and laws in our practice (barring reference to previous versions of the BLM manuals when doing PLSS retracements).
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Attached is a paper I wrote on the subject along with a sample letter for neighbors.
told me that I do not have permission to go on his property
Assuming you had a conversation with the adversarial attorney/neighbor, did you explain why it was necessary to access adjacent properties so as to accomplish your task along with the assurance you won??t ruin any landscape?
Sometimes a candid conversation with the complainant can turn a nightmare into a dream. ???? ?ÿ ?ÿ
Maybe my obligation ends at the point where I clarify the legal situation with my client, and if he wants to proceed with legal action, that is his decision, risk, and cost.?ÿ ?ÿ
BINGO!
If my attempts at trying to convince the landowner to allow me on his property fail, I have no problem pushing it back on the client.?ÿ
We list assumptions in our proposals, and one of them is that we have access to locus and adjoining properties to do the survey.?ÿ
If you enter with the owners permission and trip over?ÿ his garden rake, he could be liable. If you enter without permission and injure yourself, he can hardly be blamed.
Good point.
I had to quickly look up the California statute referenced and it does not have the same caveat Kentucky's right of entry statute has; which is the owner isn't liable for injury to any person entering the property based on the statute.?ÿ So I could defiantly see an attorney refusing entry to reduce liability.
defiantly and definitely, both
defiantly and definitely, both
The really sad part - the word was spelled wrong because I typed too fast.?ÿ Both options probably showed up for selection in spell check and I selected the wrong word.