I am finishing the upstairs to my house right now and have gotten quotes from electricians and plumbers and insulators. Seriously it's around $600 for three hours worth of electrical work with the overall electrical portion being $6,500. My spray foam insulation is around $7,000 for two and a half days of work. The plumber is over $5,000 too. I know I live in NY where building codes are crazy and where required trade licenses are the norm but man it's a lot of $$.
Yet I know surveyors who charge $500 for a full day of field work...forgetting the CAD work. I also know homeowners and attorneys who balk at $900 for a survey next door to my office. We bid $5,500 on a job a few years ago and I was cutting it close...then someone from an hour away comes in and charges $2,000 for the same work. It was three full days of field work plus all the CAD work...
I don't get it...No offence to the trades but how have we as professionals let these trades become so much more valuable than we are?
Thank all your local union thugs.
That's my take.
do those prices include materials?
my plumber was out last week to check out my water heater that quit heating. his price for "diagnosis" is $135.
Yes they include materials but there is not a whole lot for the plumber anyways...some flex pipe and pvc. The tub was included. I'm not really questioning the validity of the prices...I got a few quotes and they were all in the same ballpark. Mostly comparing them to our prices.
Good illustration, and many of us cringe to hear surveying referred to as a trade, yet look at the disparity in compensation. The undercutting you described is very common in my area of NYS. Imho this is due to the absence of enforcement of our state as well as written local standards, which many times are completely disregarded. Of course some companies will also undercut to keep staff working during slow times. Either way it seems like the wrong answer.
> ... how have we as professionals let these trades become so much more valuable than we are?
In a word it's all about value. Actually perceived value. Too often our clients are seeking our services not because they see the value but because they are being required to do so by some third party. Dig deep enough and it is almost always the government in one form or another.
Being made to pay the sums you describe by someone else almost guarantees there will be grumbling and pushing to negotiate to get the lowest possible figure.
The key to changing this is not more government agencies requiring surveys. Instead it is each of us having a long list of what has happened in the past when people have not gotten a survey or they got a cheap survey. Recall stories from the past couple of weeks about the million dollar home built on the wrong lot? Think now the builder and property owners are starting to see the value in a good surveyor vs. a cheap surveyor?
We have all seen this sort of thing. I personally know of cases where homes were built on the wrong property. Then there is the case where a cheap survey ended up with the property owner "giving" the neighbor about $65,000 worth of land. Our job is to have these stories ready so that when someone wonders why a survey could cost $5,000 we have the evidence about how much no survey or a cheap survey can cost.
It's all about value and helping our clients see the value.
Larry P
Part of the problem is how this topic was predicated, "compared to other TRADES"!
This mindset diminishes the profession.
> Part of the problem is how this topic was predicated, "compared to other TRADES"!
>
> This mindset diminishes the profession.
That was my first thought as well but then I figured to slay one dragon at a time.
Larry P
On a side note about "+ the CAD work": The days of 1:1 ratio (field work : Office/CAD work) are a thing of the past I would say. That does not explain why the trades are more expensive. Just saying, when comparing prices with other providers.
About the original question, the fact is: Most people will interact maybe one time in their life with a land surveyor. Myself, I work in the survey world and I never had to contact a surveyor outside of work for personal stuff.
Yes, surveyors and related parties know the value of surveying. However, the vast majority of the world does not really care about surveying. In that regard, it is difficult to sell value to one-time prospect buyers. Especially when everyone has a license that says "Pick me, I am qualified".
Okay - you asked, so here's my take:
Very few if any of us have any formal knowledge regarding business, or how to run one.
Surveyors who are in business make very little money.
Businessmen who are surveyors seem to do quite well.
Why is this? Because businessmen are not afraid to charge for the "value" of their work. Surveyors seem to like to charge far less based on some hourly value they seem uncomfortable to exceed.
If we all charged twice as much for our work we would only have half as much. The meaning of this seems lost on most of us...
Ditto...
I agree, - value, not only in the value clients see, but how much value the surveyor places on their own work. The biggest problem I have seen is how little value and how much liability surveyors place on themselves for so little compensation.
It cost me more to get my truck worked on then it does to hire a surveyor.
:good:
Could it be surveyors are such an independent lot that some really see no issue with cutting each other off at the knees?
The situation isn't that bad, I don't see a lot of skinny surveyors, most look well fed.
:pizza:
Yea, I guess your right JJ.
Just to stir the pot with real estate thieves.
http://reit.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014-15-REIT-Scale.pdf
This is the local Real Estate Insitute guide to fees.
I have been surveying for going on 15 years and through it all I came to the conclusion that the end result of a survey is a professional legal opinion based on factual evidence with said evidence considered by is application and weight as related to the problem at hand. Of course there is much more to it than that.
We are somewhere between a police detective and a lawyer and/or judge along with expert measurers. Our profession depends on collecting evidence to which we consider to render a legal opinion and verdict.
I for one support the inclusion of more law classes into the required survey degrees rather than math as I know few engineers or surveyors who do not use a reference or program for a calculation.
Stake out work, as-builds, and so forth all still requires investigation and the formulation of a professional opinion as well as liability.
> Stake out work, as-builds, and so forth all still requires investigation and the formulation of a professional opinion as well as liability.
Liability, yes. Formulation of a professional opinion for the mentioned tasks, well, I don't know, seems a bit far fetched.
How can a tradesman make more than a professional? Undervalued underbidding with 'peers' who are proud to underbid...
I knew I would get some flack for this...and I agree 100%. We are a profession not a trade unfortunately the unions and a lot of people do not feel that.
Tom
