I've been battling clients on per diem rates. The GSA rates for our areas we're working in are about $140 too low. Total GSA is $160 but the area's room average is about $250 by itself.?ÿ
What language could I use in a contract to state that we'll charge them what the room costs plus meals and incidentals, while also not staying in roach motels??ÿ
I've been battling clients on per diem rates. The GSA rates for our areas we're working in are about $140 too low. Total GSA is $160 but the area's room average is about $250 by itself.?ÿ
What language could I use in a contract to state that we'll charge them what the room costs plus meals and incidentals, while also not staying in roach motels??ÿ
I dug out an old fee schedule that I had for my firm ca. 1981 or thereabouts.?ÿ I listed Per Diem as lodging costs plus $20 day per man, which at that time was enough to cover their meals. In the 1960's when I worked for the Bureau of Reclamation, we we given, depending on the town we were in, $11.00, $13.00 , and $16.00 per day. Those rates more than covered our out of pocket costs that we were reimbursed for when we turned in our voucher at the end of the week. Those rates covered our lodging and meal costs at that time.
The problem with private firms using the GSA rates is that many hotels will match the GSA rate, but only for government employees.?ÿ Also government employees are not bound by the GSA rates if there are no reasonable rooms available at the rate. They just have to show that using the GSA rate would require staying so far away from the work site that it would waste more money sticking with the rate. This mostly happens in small remote places with few government travelers.
But to answer your question, is it practical to list a few hotels and say you will stay at the one with the cheapest available rate? I wouldn't try to charge the actual cost of meals, to much paper work. You could still use the M&I GSA rate, that is almost always reasonable.
Are you working on government jobs or for the private sector??ÿ If private I would just roll it all up into a reimbursable and charge it back at cost + 10%-20% depending on what's typically done in your area.?ÿ When we go out of town I try to find?ÿa mid range hotel close to the job and the company pays for the room(s) and I give the travelers $40-$60 per day for meals depending on the local economy.?ÿ The room plus the food costs get combined into a travel reimbursable line item on the invoice and marked up by whatever amount I put in the contract.?ÿ
A lot depends on your client base. Many government agencies are limited in what they can do. If the Legislature defines the compensation thats it. Private clients are another matter. I generally just expense what it costs, sometimes with a markup. It depends..
I am in the private sector. So I'm thinking the language will be something to the effect of per diem rates will be for covering meals and incidentals at the GSA rate and the client will reimburse our lodging at cost plus 10%.
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In my humble experience, don't offer the option of the client providing the accommodation and meals.
In my humble experience, don't offer the option of the client providing the accommodation and meals.
Sounds like you have a story to go along with this??ÿ 🙂
I had a great experience at client provided accommodation a couple of years ago.?ÿ Working for a regional power company on a remote hydro site they put me up in their executive camp.?ÿ Nice room, a cook and keys to the kitchen.?ÿ I start a long term project for later this summer at another facility that unfortunately does note have a camp.?ÿ Most likely months in a trailer.
Sleep in my own bed. ?ÿYou adventurers can have all those projects that require travel. ?ÿThose days are behind me.
I don't plan on having them provide us accomodations, just reimburse us for our expense plus a small mark-up. All I know is that there isn't a flat fee to charge that would be fair to us and the client since the project area covers multiple states.?ÿ
In the early seventies I worked for a lower 48 Forest Service and when operating from our "duty station" (typically a town, ranger station or work camp) no per diem accrued.?ÿ When based anywhere else we got per diem, which was most of the time given that we were usually surveying in the boonies.?ÿ Per diem was important because a week's per diem was bigger than a week's paycheck.?ÿ?ÿ ? One year a new District Ranger showed up and had the brilliant idea of changing our duty station every time we relocated, no per diem all season. ????ÿ Unfortunately for him one crew's father was an employment attorney who got pissed off and actually took the Forest Service to court pro bono!?ÿ It took months but around Thanksgiving we all got a fat per diem check based on our original duty station only, no "roving" duty stations.
The Forest Service in Alaska was completely different.?ÿ Our duty station was Anchorage, but we worked a 10-4 schedule with a 5 (6?) man crew?ÿ usually from remote site camps,?ÿ There was no per diem.?ÿ Instead, the day before departure we went to the supermarket and used a GSA credit card to buy whatever food we wanted (heavy on high end steaks BTW), which was sturdily boxed up for shipment (dry ice/gel packs in coolers for the perishables) by the supermarket.?ÿ An initial move in was a very big deal;?ÿ all our stuff,?ÿ wall tents, plywood tent floors, heaters, lanterns, fuel, kitchen equipment, a sealed emergency shortwave radio, survey gear, and our personal stuff like sleeping bags was trucked to a helipad/airstrip,?ÿ (or rarely driven in on 4WD roads), from which it was transported to a campsite the PC picked out.?ÿ We got to fly in too on the first move in,?ÿ but if we were within 15-20 miles of a roadhead we walked in and out thereafter and only our consumables?ÿ got choppered in.?ÿ One project involved taking a tramp steamer across Prince William Sound, then unloading all our stuff plus two speedboats and fuel drums in a remote bay, from which we could reach a small village roadhead by boat to get in and out every ten days.
Yea, no per diem, but it must have cost the FS thousands for the operation, and it was a magnificent adventure if you're in to?ÿ the woodsy life.?ÿ No complaints from me.
Everyone I know that travels for their work has 5th wheel accomodations and they pocket as much of their perdiem as possible.
In 26 years as a federal government surveyor traveling all over the country ?ÿI have never had an issue with making the GSA per diem work. Nor have any of my givernment contractors ever complained about the GSA prr diem rate. In fact, at least one contractor told me his guys loved working for us beacause they liked making the extra money from the GSA per diem. ?ÿI clearly don??t know all the details of your situation. I am only providing information on my experience.
I spend a lot of time in hotels.?ÿ The only problem I have with the GSA lodging rate is that it does not account for taxes.?ÿ In some areas that can approach 15%.?ÿ I have found that when I'm working on a government contract I can sometimes get paperwork to have the hotels waive the taxes.
In 26 years as a federal government surveyor traveling all over the country ?ÿI have never had an issue with making the GSA per diem work. Nor have any of my givernment contractors ever complained about the GSA prr diem rate. In fact, at least one contractor told me his guys loved working for us beacause they liked making the extra money from the GSA per diem. ?ÿI clearly don??t know all the details of your situation. I am only providing information on my experience.
Usually the GSA rate is?ÿ sufficient, if not generous.?ÿ But I have had one situation were it just didn't cover the costs in the nearest town. Our solution in that case was simply to drive an hour a day round trip to the next town, which had a motel we could afford.?ÿ ?ÿ
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Our hotel rate is the rate for the county plus all applicable taxes.?ÿ So if I spend over the rate but don't ask for a over-rate approval then I claim the standard rate plus all of the taxes, don't have to pro-rate the taxes down.
It's been getting a lot harder over the past few years to find hotels willing to rent rooms at the State rate.?ÿ Hotels are of course real estate; as property values go up room rates go up but the State is slow to increase the standard rates to meet reality.
In 26 years as a federal government surveyor traveling all over the country ?ÿI have never had an issue with making the GSA per diem work. Nor have any of my givernment contractors ever complained about the GSA prr diem rate. In fact, at least one contractor told me his guys loved working for us beacause they liked making the extra money from the GSA per diem. ?ÿI clearly don??t know all the details of your situation. I am only providing information on my experience.
I can assure you there are areas that a GSA rate hotel can not be found at certain times of year, especially for people who do not qualify for the government rates.?ÿ
I spend a lot of time in hotels.?ÿ The only problem I have with the GSA lodging rate is that it does not account for taxes.?ÿ In some areas that can approach 15%.?ÿ I have found that when I'm working on a government contract I can sometimes get paperwork to have the hotels waive the taxes.
Right, that is another problem with the private sector using GSA rates. Is some states government employees on official duty are exempt from hotel taxes, and in the others the taxes are a separate line item not included in calculating weather the GSA rate requirement is met.?ÿ
The area is Pecos, TX. I just called to get updated pricing for extended stays. The average room rate for at least a month straight is $200 plus tax. The GSA rate included M&I is $159.?ÿ A nasty Motel 6 I stayed in 4 years ago had rooms near $105 plus tax.?ÿ