My rant...I am beginning to believe that our profession is the only one in which licensed professionals continuously undervalue their time and services.
I was just informed that I was underbid on an elevation certificate on a local property, by someone willing to provide a certification for $300. I understand that a one-man survey shop can charge less than an engineering & surveying company, but does this individual have a clue of value and worth of services.
I'm not advocating price fixing or anything unethical, but I wish that the individuals that so clearly undervalue their time and services, would just go away. Would a doctor, lawyer, CPA, or other licensed professional low ball to the point of being 75% lower that what their services are worth?
Rant over.
At a surveyor's chapter meeting, another surveyor approached me and asked what I
got for a certain update. I said $1000. He said he wondered what happened because
he bid $700.
Ironically, there is probably a banner ad running for someone who does them for $75 under your post.
So your rate for a single family residence FEMA is in the 700-900 range? Do you do many of them at that fee in Miss?
Most of my fees fall in the $750-$1200 range, depending on availability on benchmarks, size of dwelling, and if I have to calculate a BFE.
Kevin,
I'm sorry to say low-ballers are just a reality. Plain and simple. Not just in our profession either. But the cream always rises to the top and the rest settles to the bottom. Folks that produce sub-standard work at cut-throat prices are desperate. They probably won't last long.
Be careful now. Someone may have done some work on the house next door and just happened to have all the info handy. That does happen. It probably isn't the case, but it can happen.
I've noticed as professionals some surveyors have a tendency to eventually get themselves into a specific market or service. Those guys are hard to beat because it's their game. If the client was looking for the cheapest price instead of the quality of the work you might not have needed (or wanted) the job anyway.
Ahhh, yes, calculating the BFE would be the major part of that fee and risk, I suppose.
I quoted a broker $1600 to set a TBM at a work site, $600 if he knew of a closer B.M.
The broker called back and said another surveyors would charge $800. I asked where
the BM was. He said the center of the road. I said BM's were generally not set in roads.
The broker said he got it from an official USGS map that showed the elevation to the nearest
foot at an intersection.
> I've noticed as professionals some surveyors have a tendency to eventually get themselves into a specific market or service. Those guys are hard to beat because it's their game.
I have noticed this a lot too. Anytime I try to branch out into other things I find there are people that specialize in that thing and have it down to an art. They can churn out good quality at a price that is unbeatable.
>
> I have noticed this a lot too. Anytime I try to branch out into other things I find there are people that specialize in that thing and have it down to an art. They can churn out good quality at a price that is unbeatable.
Isn't that the nature of business??? You do what you like, you do it well, and your clients come to your door. Your fee is no one else's business, and likewise.
I used to work for a big survey firm that specialized in GPS network work and design surveys. when they would get a call for a small job they didn't want they would quote an outrageous number. I never liked that... why not just say no thanks, we don't do that kind of work.
I wish this were a case in which a "specialist" that had information in the area, but unfortunately, it is not.
For those of you that are undercutting the rest of the profession, set your fees based on time to complete and value to the client. Your time is worth more than $25 per hour/per crew. Charge accordingly.
For all of those that commented, Thank You for all of your responses.
"When someone else has worked next door" reminds me of the price schedule at the mechanic's shop under the category "If you've worked on it".
It's not always a good thing, nor is comparing your price to his either, although you know it will be.
Of course, you guys know this.
Paden:
I know a surveyor who bids his surveys real low.
$250 for a 40-acre survey with a building.
Has loads of work -- average lot survey takes about a month, not to survey it, just to get to it.
Uses a dip needle; no magnetic locator.
All of his tapes are spliced; no EDM.
If he does not find a pipe or rebar at the corner, he flags the fence corner.
His transit is something like a Path.
No shovels in his beat-up car.
Several employees work one week without getting paid.
All lot surveys are done with Google map if possible.
I can relate. I've become jaded with the "shoppers" and lowballers as well. Thankfully, we mostly work for repeat clients, builders, municipalities, that all know the quality and value of our work. I don't value the small, one shot wonder type jobs very high.
When people call shopping, the "I just need one line staked" people, I immediately tell them that we are not the cheapest around. I tell them we are thorough, do not cut corners, and stand behind our work, so if they are just looking for the cheapest price, shop elsewhere. And, when problems arise from hiring "the cheapest guy", don't call us to fix it.
I find most people respect the honesty, even if they hire "the cheap guy". Lowballers will always be an issue. I find the trick is to chase the more involved projects that those guys tend to stay away from and don't encourage that kind of behavior.
And don't get me going on realtors...
-V
It's a shame..
that there's any of those guys left.
Here in the central part of Oklahoma we've had our share of rag-tapers. Mostly older guys that are still trying to squeeze a buck out of their license. Most of them have fallen by the way over the years.
Our State Board's "Enforcement Division" aggressively hawks the ones whose substandard work keeps surfacing.
A recent Board action involved an 80 year old surveyor and his recorded plat. No bearings, hardly any info really and real fuzzy math. It really looked like something from the '50s. It was apparent that it did not meet our Minimum Standards.
When contacted I believe this guy got a little indignant. He was THE surveyor in his "one horse" part of the State. He had a Legislator, the President of the local title company and the preacher from the Antioch Baptist Church all write letters about what a "pillar of the community" this guy was. And no doubt he was. But his worked was sub-standard (sucked).
He got busted. A real shame because he wasn't trying to be fraudulent or anything, his work just came from the "way-back" machine. And I'm sure everything he has done in the last fifty years has been the same quality. Probably the nicest Deacon in the congregation. But his work had to go.
Remember: "Time wounds all heels". 😉
Kevin, we live in an area of the "professional low baller".
If I had a nickle for everytime that my company has been told, "Well, So and So will do it for less!", I would be a very wealthy man.
Our company, like yours, is staffed by professionals that strive to meet or exceede Chapter 21 of the state regs, while the "independents" just give the client an answer or the line,"Well that's just a sketch". It infurriates me no end.
And the bad part is, these cats are the very ones that will bad mouth your firm to your clients in order to get work.
I do drafting work for two small, independent firms, but I hold their feet to the fire to meet the standards. Sometimes they whine I put them over budget, to which I reply,"Well, you should have bid higher." 😀
It's a shame..
those are some horrible practices, for sure. I can tell you the worst surveying I see around here is an "office guy" that has his license. when the market tanked, he started up his own shop. ridiculously bad field work.
I get told all the time that my fees are too high, or that so and so will do it cheaper. I always pause, then ask why are they still on the phone?
Why haven't you turned him in?
Low ballers...or just stupid surveyors
Interesting thread here. I think all of us that regularly do provide elevations certificates realize both the liability to us and the value to the client. The stupid ones don't.
Case in point, I quoted a lady a month ago $700 on an existing house she's buying about 40 miles away in BFE desert land. Pretty straight forward for the most part, and it's a nice drive. She emailed me this morning "...can you do it for $500...".
The really ironic part is I also got an email from an out of town firm with a small satellite office here that I do a considerable amount of work with, referred me back to this lady. I'll call her back this afternoon, but it is very annoying to have to deal with this crappola. Likely the realtor told her it should be under $500, but nobody around here even likes to do them. I will, but not for $500.
Disclaimer: I know we're not supposed to talk about fees, rates, etc. But it came up early so I chimed in with a true story. I may or may not do the job, but I'm not driving 80 miles, doing all the paperwork, dealing with the liability for under $XXX. Let the lowballer do it and will likely goof it up, then the lady calls me back to fix it. cha ching
Low ballers...or just stupid surveyors
While studying for Washington I came across an interesting tid-bit. It is an actual (not just ethical) violation to drop your price to match or beat someone else after giving a proposal. Perhaps the example could be followed....
Low ballers...or just stupid surveyors
> While studying for Washington I came across an interesting tid-bit. It is an actual (not just ethical) violation to drop your price to match or beat someone else after giving a proposal. Perhaps the example could be followed....
That's correct, which is why we never quote prices to the public. If the first question out of their mouth is how much does XXXXX cost. My answer is typically......let me give you the # of someone that can meet your cost driven needs.