I suppose my primary end question is:?ÿ In Texas, can a surveyor be held liable by a current landowner for a survey that he prepared for a previous landowner??ÿ Here is a not so theoretical situation:
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- Landowner A buys two city lots in 1988 that have been foreclosed on that are called to be 60' N-S by 98' E-W, but never oficially platted which are bounded on the East by a city street; bounded on the West by a dedicated alley, and bounded on the North and South by other landowners.
- Landowner B buys the two lots in 2009 using a survey that Landowner A has prepared by "Cut Rate Surveys 4 U".?ÿ Cut Rate Surveys 4 U (CRS4U) does not conduct the proper deed research, but instead uses a "Tax Map" that Landowner A provides showing the lot dimensions to be 60' x 115'.?ÿ CRS4U's final survey shows the exterior dimension of the property to be 115.000' by 119.999' with no found monuments.?ÿ The lot is now shown to be bounded on the East by a street and by an adjoining building corner at the Northwest corner, no other landowner information was given.
- Landowner C buys the property in 2017 using the survey that Landowner A had prepared for Landowner B in 2009.
- Landowner A dies in 2018.
- Landowner C decides to put up a privacy fence in 2019, and when he ties into the adjoining building corner at his Northwest corner like CRS4U??s survey showed, the building owner is not pleased because according to her, the building is 5?? West of her East property line, which is the West line of a 12?? alley.
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Now, assuming that CRS4U's survey is incorrect and Landowner C's property does not actually cross the alley where the water and sewer lines are located and extend to the existing building corner:
Is CRS4U financially liable for having landowner C??s fence relocated since he prepared the survey for Landowner A (who is now deceased)?
If CRS4U is not financially liable for having Landowner C??s fence relocated, who is, or does it jus fall back to Landowner C?
If CRS4U is financially liable, could he have eliminated that liability by noting that the survey is prepared for Landowner A and is not to be used for any subsequent transactions?
What is the date on CRS4U's survey and are there any revisions to it? ?????ÿ
@flga-2 December 2008 is the date on the survey, no revisions filed of record, Landowner C's deed used a photocopy of the survey that Landowner A had prepared.
Statute of Limitations would apply, whatever they are in Texas.
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Statute of Limitations would apply, whatever they are in Texas.
This right here. And if the statute of limitations has not run out, then case law is probably going to be the best guide for how this might get resolved. I really doubt there is a hard and fast rule on this one.
ha.?ÿ that's a legal question, not a surveying one.?ÿ in my experience with similar situations, the tried and true phrase of "money talks and bullsh*t walks" would be the applicable statute to apply.
check out section 16.011 of code of civil procedures for Texas - talks about limiting liabiltiy of surveyor to 10 years after completion of survey.
There is no privity of contract. You can be held liable by future owners of property, adjacent owners, 3rd parties....
There is no privity of contract. You can be held liable by future owners of property, adjacent owners, 3rd parties....
This is what we need to get out of, holding the bag for future owners and generations.?ÿ Our work is not only about the land, but also seems to be a never ending insurance policy.
Title searchers and closing attorney's don't carry their liability forward with each new land owner.?ÿ Why should we?
Landowners should be treading at their own risk by not using a current survey, prepared for them.
@flyin-solo?ÿ Yeah, that is why I burried it over here in the Business, Finance and Legal forum instead of the more active Survyeing & Geomatics forum.
Regardless of laws, ethics or anything else, what's to say CRS4U won't claim the fence was there in 2008 and how could the opposition prove different other than hearsay. Legal fees alone would easily supercede the cost of relocating the fence. Ain't worth the effort. CRS4U's response to the use of their survey for purposes other than intended should be "caveat emptor ". ?ÿ?????ÿ
When we do a boundary survey we are performing a quasi public function. We are always surveying the boundaries of owners other than?ÿ our clients. If subsequent owners and neighbours can't rely on our surveys our product's value is decimated.?ÿ
A boundary can change over time, but it doesn't change when title is transferred.?ÿ
There is a of course a conflict between our responsibilities to all that come after and running successful businesses. Hence many states have instituted statutes of limitations. Isn't that a good trade off that allows the value of of our services to be high while avoiding never ending liability??ÿ
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I'm not going to word this correctly probably, but there is something out of whack with our profession in this regard.?ÿ No other profession, trade, job, etc, would stand for the use of and reliance on their products by limitless number of users who don't pay them, but still have the ability to hold them liable for potential mistakes.
I see nothing wrong with limiting our liability to the client.?ÿ And any subsequent owner should have to pay for an updated survey, prepared for them, or take their chances.
Might want to check if Texas has a discovery rule. This would control when the statute of limitations begins.?ÿ
If a substandard service is performed or negligence occurs and damage is caused to a party, then the negligent or substandard provider should be liable. The idea that some type of immunity exists or should exist to shield the negligent or substandard provider is I believe both incorrect and unwanted by any society. Although we have come to the conclusion that this liability should disappear after a given amount of time.
You may try to limit your liability with a statement but that does not necessarily relieve you of your obligations to meet standards. Meet the appropriate standards and you will not incur liability. If the job is done correctly, there should not be any cause for concern.
It's my understanding that my state does not have a discovery rule for this situation (although I'm not a lawyer), and it's 4 years.?ÿ
Date of discovery usually has to do with the allowable time between discovery and Statue of Limitations toward their possession of the land not included in their deed.
The limit of time a surveyor is held liable for his survey is around 10 years from the date of the survey.
After that, the surveyor is off the hook unless some other reason of error can be proven.
When another surveyor takes a bad survey and uses it to continue or to restake missing monuments, they have assumed the responsibility of the first surveyor and made it their own by not going the distance to fully survey to the next acceptable monuments and find if their is any problem before closing the door and making out the final billing on his project.
There are more details to the mix, this is merely the jest of the current waters out there.
We all make mistakes, some small, some big.?ÿ Regardless, I don't believe that we should have to live in fear, even into retirement, of one of yours or mine from decades ago, coming back to haunt.
@flga-2?ÿ Agreed, you get what you pay for, in CRS4U's case, they should usually pay their client.?ÿ The trouble they would have in saying that the fence was there in 2008 would be that they didn't show it on their "plat", but they did show the one that was near where the actual boundary line is located.
We all must hang our hat on the work of those who have gone before us.?ÿ Our work will be the basis for those who follow us.?ÿ Thus, it follows that we absolutely need to make our very best effort at all times.?ÿ Minor measurement issues and differences of opinion be damned.?ÿ Do your work as though your financial security depended on it at all times.?ÿ Those who refuse to approach the profession with respect need to be drummed out of the business entirely.?ÿ The only "morning after" pill for our mistakes is to make an admission of wrong doing at the earliest possible moment and take action ASAP to make amends.
In the above scenario only ??A?, or his heirs, can pursue CRS4U for any damages, which if only the fence, appear to be irrelevant from a dollar standpoint. B an C are SOL no matter where the fence is or is not.?ÿ?????ÿ