MightyMoe, post: 424129, member: 700 wrote: And 50,000>0, while -2000<0. Sometimes it's amazing how surveyors can be so bad at simple math.;)
Lets review your math skills, you valve the job at 52,000, you don't bid it but price it at 50,000. it would be making what you think the job is worth or give away 2,000.
52,000 > 50,000 or -2,000 < 2,000.
Cameron Watson PLS, post: 424119, member: 11407 wrote: Choosing to eat 3% on a decent sized contract for a repeat Client in order to keep it out of the hard bid realm doesn't seem like bad business practice to me. Good, fast paying repeat Clients are worth their weight in gold IMHO.
Exactly. A well put together proposal should have something in the neighborhood of 10 to 15% profit anyway...and that's an ethereal number. I've had jobs that were accepted with my original bottom line and when it was all said and done I actually made out with something in the neighborhood of around 7%. 3% is well within the "real world as-built accounting" parameters.
MightyMoe, post: 423926, member: 700 wrote: I would have spent that during the bidding process.
We don't participate in "bidding processes" for professional services.
Steve Gilbert, post: 423959, member: 111 wrote: From the Alabama BELS Cannon of Ethics:
330-X-14-.05 Practice. (Canon IV.) The engineer or land surveyor shall endeavor to build a practice and professional reputation on the merit of his or her services as follows:
(a) The engineer or land surveyor shall not offer, or promise to pay or deliver, directly or indirectly, any commission, political contribution, gift, favor, gratuity, benefit or
reward as an inducement to secure any specific professional engineering or professional land surveying work or assignment; providing and excepting, however, that an engineer or land surveyor may pay a duly licensed employment agency its fee or commission for securing engineering or land surveying employment in a salaried position.
(b) The engineer or land surveyor shall not solicit professional employment by self-laudatory advertising, or in any manner contrary to high professional standards.
(c) Licensees shall not falsify or permit misrepresentation of their, or their associates, academic or professional qualifications. They shall not misrepresent or exaggerate their degree of responsibility in prior assignments nor the complexity of said assignments. Presentations incident to the solicitation of employment or business shall not misrepresent pertinent facts concerning employers, employees, associates, joint ventures, or past accomplishments.
(d) The engineer or land surveyor shall not supplant, nor attempt to supplant, directly or indirectly, another engineer or land surveyor in an ongoing engineering or land surveying project, after contracts have been awarded to such other engineer or land surveyor.
(e) The engineer or land surveyor shall not attempt to compete with another engineer or land surveyor for employment by reducing his or her usual charges or by the use of unethical practices.
(f) The engineer or land surveyor shall not participate in or implement procurement practices (bid submittals) which do not first determine the qualifications of the engineer or land surveyor prior to entering into fee negotiations for services being sought. An engineer or land surveyor having submitted a statement of qualification and performance data, and having first been judged as the qualified individual or firm to provide the services required for the proposed project, may proceed to negotiate a contract with a client and establish compensation or fees for the required services.
Should the engineer or land surveyor be unable to negotiate a satisfactory contract with the client for any reason, the engineer or land surveyor shall withdraw from further consideration for the engineering or land surveying services. Another engineer or land surveyor may then be selected for negotiations of a contract for the services on the stated project.
Examples include but are not limited to, simultaneous negotiations or solicitation of fee proposals by the client from two or more engineers or land surveyors constitutes ÛÏbiddingÛ and participation by a licensee is prohibited.
My CONGRATULATIONS to Alabama!
paden cash, post: 424148, member: 20 wrote: Exactly. A well put together proposal should have something in the neighborhood of 10 to 15% profit anyway...and that's an ethereal number. I've had jobs that were accepted with my original bottom line and when it was all said and done I actually made out with something in the neighborhood of around 7%. 3% is well within the "real world as-built accounting" parameters.
Depending on the client and some of inherent contracting limits we typically shoot for 25-30% profit. We've steadliy increased that # for years and the work keeps coming.
around here, my favorite red flag is: "I just want my corners flagged approximately. You dont have to set them THAT close". Usually, there is not a lot of dickering about price, but about what we have to do. If they don't like the price, they usually go shopping. If I can, I recommend others that I know actually charge more. If they stay on the line and argue about how much time, and what you actually have to do, they usually are not shopping. Dickering is a pretty long term american rite.
Jim in AZ, post: 424153, member: 249 wrote: We don't participate in "bidding processes" for professional services.
I haven't bid a job since 2013, that one I got and recovered all my bid time, the two that came through the door this year I looked into and declined. It's not something I ever did much of, although I will give out an estimate range for some work.
WA-ID Surveyor, post: 424155, member: 6294 wrote: Depending on the client and some of inherent contracting limits we typically shoot for 25-30% profit. We've steadliy increased that # for years and the work keeps coming.
That's not bad if you can keep it up. What kind of ROI could you give an old gray headed surveyor that's sick of his IRA getting >5%? 😉
Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 423903, member: 6939 wrote: Over the past couple of weeks, I have issued some proposals for various surveying services, only for the potential client to come back and try to dicker with me on the price. Do any of you guys dicker with your potential clients? Is there any upside doing this? I almost never back down off my initial estimate. I figure that survey estimates are pretty much educated guesses anyway, so why should I doubt my initial instincts of how much a project should cost.
I have, on large projects, when it came up, reduced my fee a bit to keep the job. In EVERY instance of me doing that, I ended up with many more large projects from those clients and while I gave prices each time, they never questioned them. I think those people just want to feel out who they're going to retain. If it's a small project, then no I do not, but when we are in many tens of thousands of dollars, dropping 1,500 to get the gig is nothing and if it was, then I wasn't high enough to begin with.
MightyMoe, post: 424161, member: 700 wrote: I haven't bid a job since 2013, that one I got and recovered all my bid time, the two that came through the door this year I looked into and declined. It's not something I ever did much of, although I will give out an estimate range for some work.
I'm curious, how do you get clients to "sign up" if they have no idea what it is going to cost?
That's really not a problem. Probably two-thirds don't even ask for an estimate. They have been told they must have it done, so they are going to have to pay someone. The other third are generally happy with a ballpark estimate. They hope for the low end but are not surprised if it comes in near the high end. A very few demand an absolute fixed number. It's going to be a big number whether they realize that or not.
roger_LS, post: 424296, member: 11550 wrote: I'm curious, how do you get clients to "sign up" if they have no idea what it is going to cost?
What holy said, and also much of my work is return clients that request new work and call, email, or meet to lay out what they need, usually they dont discuss cost.
I've heard a few DOT's will reject a bid if it's 15% higher than what theyve anticipated....too bad they don't apply the 15% the other way also.
While most of my work is for repeat clients who do not seek other quotes and this is what I prefer, I occasionally do price for jobs where I know three quotes are required, for example government work. I have gotten some very high value profitable jobs in these situations so I don't understand what the problem is. Sometimes the deciding factor can be time-frame and ability.
Right now I'm buried in work, so when someone calls, I ask them if they're looking for the lowest price for the work. If they answer yes, or hem & haw, I send 'em to the guy who always seems to beat my price by 3-5%. I don't even want to take the time to come up with a reliable estimate.