Charging for CAD files

Absolutely you should charge them.

We will typically deliver in the form of a pdf file - so its easy to provide a copy.

If a particular job contract requires, we may supply data in other formats - often a dtm or dxf.

Further copies, or supply to third parties, will be charged for the time it takes us.

Kimberly Saxton, post: 366894, member: 11531 wrote: Hello

I wanted to get other's take on charging for CAD files. We are constantly burden by 3rd parties wanting CAD files and/or PDF's of surveys we have completed. (Now, assuming we have obtained the consent of the person who ordered the survey and paid for it) If it is a builder whom we do a lot of business with, or we knew when doing the survey someone was going to need the CAD file; I have no problem giving them what they need.

However, I do have a problem taking the time to unarchive a job, cleaning up the CAD file, getting the person's information, and sending them what they needed without some sort of fee, if it is someone I don't know (mostly architects) and the job is over a year old. Even if it is $25, time is money in my opinion. Your thoughts on this?

PDF's are the normal deliverable here. No one seems to want prints anymore. With regards to CAD files, we have it a a contract item. Generally I state that if the client requests an electronic data file at the time the contract is signed we will provide it at no cost. If they request them at a later date we will bill them hourly for the time to unarchive and provide them in the format they specify. We never provide the point data, just the work product.

At my old firm, if we did send cad files, we wouldn't send any points or any other info that could be misused. We would also bill the original client for the hour or so of time it took.

If the 3rd party has not paid anything for the survey originally I would be charging a fee for review and issue (maybe an update) probably a substantial percentage of the original price.

I own copyright and as far as I am concerned it is my data to resell should I choose depending on my relationship with the client. If I discover someone has infringed on copyright I will pursue it.

Now if the original client has sold it on that is fair enough but I would like to know.

Never mind the liability issues.

Who is the 3rd party? Is it related to the work you did for the original client or a new owner of the property? If its for a new owner then the answer is No dont give them a CAD file or PDF. If it is a Lot survey we dont give out the CAD file, if it is a topographic survey then we send the CAD file to the engineer who is doing the work. Engineerings and Architects are about the only people I will send a CAD file to and it helps if I know they are getting the file before I start the job.

We get calls all the time from Realtor saying hey yall did a survey 7 years ago at this address can I get a copy of the survey. I always say can you have the person we did the survey call and ask us for a copy. Most of the time the answer is ohh they sold this property years ago this is for the new buyer. I just quote them a price for a new survey.

Kimberly Saxton, post: 366894, member: 11531 wrote: Hello

I wanted to get other's take on charging for CAD files. We are constantly burden by 3rd parties wanting CAD files and/or PDF's of surveys we have completed. (Now, assuming we have obtained the consent of the person who ordered the survey and paid for it) If it is a builder whom we do a lot of business with, or we knew when doing the survey someone was going to need the CAD file; I have no problem giving them what they need.

However, I do have a problem taking the time to unarchive a job, cleaning up the CAD file, getting the person's information, and sending them what they needed without some sort of fee, if it is someone I don't know (mostly architects) and the job is over a year old. Even if it is $25, time is money in my opinion. Your thoughts on this?

I think you are spot on with what you are doing. Time is indeed money and your time is quite valuable. I am in Scott's camp with not releasing digital data on a regular basis; however, as you mentioned, we have several regular clients who I overlook that with. I'd say $100 is about right. Email an invoice right along with the pdf.

I will send a client a scan of an original signed and sealed document and keep it in their file.

Third parties must go thru the client to get anything. It is their survey and it is not my call to make without finding out why they did not make the request.

And yes, there is a non standard fee based on who, what and why and something thrown in to factor in their urgency factor.

Thanks for your input......I had an architect (numb-nut) read me the riot act for charging him $25, 6 months after the fact. I am very easy going, but when he acted that way, I started to wonder, maybe, I was asking too much (very sarcastically at $25 for a CAD file). They are driving me crazy, why oh why, can they not draw the same square? Most of the time I get construction drawings, they used PLAT distances anyway!

And yes, {A Harris}, it all boils down to THEIR time frame. Oh my, we have to have a CAD file showing four corners. Oh My hurry and get on this, its only been a year!.

K

At an absolute minimum, charge for your time. If you're dealing with a 3rd party who is not a consultant for or otherwise directly connected to the client for whom you had performed the survey, also consider the actual value of the info and the additional liability that you might be incurring by providing it. There are ways to satisfactorily minimize additional liability, but not to eliminate it completely, so some charge over and above time in those instances is certainly warranted.

Whenever you provide data in electronic form, you should also have an Electronic Release Agreement signed by the recipient. That agreement should, among other liability limiting clauses, state that in the event that the electronic file and the hard copy are found to be in disagreement, the info on the hard copy prevails. That of course means that you have to send a hard copy (and charge for it). The agreement should also have a clause that if the file is altered in any way after being sent, your company no longer assumes any responsibility for the data. Your E&O carrier may have additional advice for such an agreement.

Electronic Release Agreement - ABSOLUTELY!

We tag this on (and print out and file) this disclaimer whenever we send out Cad files. I put this together from half a dozen disclaimers I found on line. Change if you wish. Any corrections/additions would be welcome.

replace CO-NAME with a abbrivation of Company Name.

------------------------------------

Disclaimer

Acceptance and use of any and all electronically transmitted information and/or drawings indicates the Recipient's agreement to the following terms and conditions:

1. Recipient acknowledges that these documents have been electronically transmitted at the request of the Recipient, and that COMPANY NAME. (CO-NAME) does not warrant or guarantee information contained in these documents.

2. Recipient recognizes that the automated conversion of information and data from the systems and formats used by CO-NAME to alternate systems and formats may result in inaccuracies, errors and inexactitudes. The delivery of this drawing should not be construed to provide an express warranty or guarantee to anyone that all dimensions are exact or to indicate that the use of this drawing implies the review and approval by CO-NAME for any future use. If there is a discrepancy between the electronic files and the hard copies, the hard copies shall govern. Any use of this information is at the sole risk and liability of the user. In the event that such errors occur during automated conversion, Recipient agrees to assume all risks associated with these resulting errors, and, to the fullest extent permitted by law, to hold harmless and indemnify CO-NAME from and against all claims, liabilities, losses, damages, and costs arising from the errors, including, but not limited to, attorneys‰Ûª fees.

3. Recipient recognizes that changes or modifications to CO-NAME instruments of professional service by anyone other than CO-MAME may result in adverse consequences that CO-NAME cannot predict or control. Therefore, Recipient agrees, to the fullest extent permitted by law, to hold harmless and indemnify CO-NAME from and against all claims, liabilities, losses, damages, and costs, including, but not limited to, attorneys‰Ûª fees, arising out of or in any way connected with the modification, misinterpretation, misuse, or reuse by others of the machine readable information or data provided by CO-NAME.

4. By accepting and using any drawings or other data in any form of electronic media generated or provided by CO-NAME, Recipient agrees that all such drawings and data are instruments of service of CO-NAME, who shall be deemed the authors of the drawings and data, and shall retain all common law, statutory law and other rights, including copyrights. Under no circumstances shall transfer of the drawings and other instruments of service on electronic media for use by the Recipient be deemed to be a sale by CO-NAME. CO-NAME makes no warranties, either express or implied, of merchantability and fitness of the drawings or data for any particular purpose.

5. Recipient further agrees not to use these drawings and data in whole or in part, for any purpose other than the project which is the subject of this Agreement. Recipient agrees to waive all claims against CO-NAME resulting from any unauthorized changes or reuse of the drawings and data for any project. The delivery of this drawing in electronic format is for the benefit of the Owner for whom the design services have been performed. Nothing in this transfer should be construed to provide any right of the Recipient to rely on the information provided or that the use of this electronic information implies the review and approval by CO-NAME of any drawing based on the information. It is the professional opinion of CO-NAME that this electronic information provides design information current as of the date of its release. Any use of this information is at the sole risk and liability of the Recipient.

6. No drawings and/or publications shall be considered engineered/surveyed without the seal and signature of a licensed engineer/surveyor certified by the state in which the work was performed. Therefore, only stamped and signed hard copies shall be considered fully engineered/surveyed plans and/or publications

I echo the importance of having an electronic release statement and addressing the project deliverables in a contract. I have been charged a 500 flat fee before and I have charged others that and sometimes more. Cheers

(a) I never charge for anything under $50. It just isn't worth my time, or my wife's time, keeping track of $20 or whatever.

(b) I gladly send out pdfs and CAD files to anyone who asks (usually title companies, brokers, or architects). That is called building goodwill, and is part of marketing, something I'm rather good at doing.

Kimberly Saxton, post: 366894, member: 11531 wrote: Hello

I wanted to get other's take on charging for CAD files. We are constantly burden by 3rd parties wanting CAD files and/or PDF's of surveys we have completed. (Now, assuming we have obtained the consent of the person who ordered the survey and paid for it) If it is a builder whom we do a lot of business with, or we knew when doing the survey someone was going to need the CAD file; I have no problem giving them what they need.

However, I do have a problem taking the time to unarchive a job, cleaning up the CAD file, getting the person's information, and sending them what they needed without some sort of fee, if it is someone I don't know (mostly architects) and the job is over a year old. Even if it is $25, time is money in my opinion. Your thoughts on this?

You need to pay attention to the agreement you signed with the owner. If it was their contract you signed you may not even own the electronic files anymore....but you may not realise it. If you are the owner of the data and a 3rd party, lets say an Architect that is aware of a recently completed survey by you, wants the electronic data then you charge him full price for the cost of the survey. I have no earthly idea why you wouldn't.

I received a similar call the other day from an Architect about a project we worked on 4 years ago.....he wanted to know what datum xyz project was on because he needed it to compare sewer inverts. Somehow our electronic files ended up in their hands through one of our clients. The trouble is, we own the data and they have no right to use it outside of it's intended use. After much discussion with our original client and due to a series of unfortunate events outside of our control(something about being too expensive and in the wrong format) we will not be allowing them to use our topo at all. The owner, a city, is aware of this and the chips are falling where they may with the Architect.

First, check with your insurance company and see what they say about this.
I share my CAD file to those who I have a relationship with or who I have a clear understanding what they are going to do with . I always include a hard copy print of the drawing with my stamp and dated signature as to when the work was done. The CAD file (sometimes points sometimes not) includes a brief what for and what if and do and do not, bla, bla bla. Our BOR frowns on transferring any information without certification.
For those who call me about work I may have done five or ten years ago and demand that I send them a file I tell them I need to check with my client and don't give them a call back. I won't be pushed into something that I am not comfortable with.
I have been known to administer a $200 file recovery fee to attorneys, engineers or designers which believe it or not, usually ends the conversation.
If a client calls, I provide prints, CAD files, deeds and just about anything for no compensation. However, a plate of cookies gets it done faster.

Seems fair.

Right now I am looking for a Microstation cell of a 200 ton crane. There are plenty of them for sale online but I have yet to find the elusive free one. That is a good Segway into this; If any of you Microstation gurus have a 200 ton crane cell in one of your libraries and do not mind sharing, hook a brutha up 😀

[USER=61]@Roadhand[/USER], I have some cranes in Plan view or Profile view, but not in 3d. Drop me an email.

Wondering perhaps old bud & pal, Ralph Perez could assist you.

I really dis-like what most are saying here. No reason to "bastardize" the CAD file just because you feel a need to protect your data. It is more likely going to create more problems, than you think it is solving. I'm with Bruce and others, provide the information to the client withOUT removing the point data.

Push too hard, and you will loose that client. Work with the client and they will work with you.

I see many of these crap CAD files, from Engineers and Surveyors. Put yourself on the other side of the fence. What good is a set of design plans if you can not build it. I see way too many drawings (PDF, Paper, and/or CAD) with no benchmarks, and no horizontal control ties. It has to be way more that just accidentally left off the plans. It appes to be deliberate, so that the original surveyor gets the call back. Then he can charge more to set BM's and provide horizontal control. When this should have been part of his original contract.

This can be a tough one. I've got the last eight years or so right on my computer. If a fellow professional calls, I usually just send out the files, because the architect or engineer or whoever hasn't accounted for an additional charge and the client thinks they have already paid so it can cause hard feelings, it's just not worth it. If they are older files that need to be unarchived I might ask for $100 or so and insist that the money be paid upfront on a cc so it doesn't have to go into the billing system. Many folks just go away, the survey is so old that it may need to be updated anyway.

leegreen, post: 370696, member: 2332 wrote: What good is a set of design plans if you can not build it. I see way too many drawings (PDF, Paper, and/or CAD) with no benchmarks, and no horizontal control ties.

I understand what you are saying but from my point of view I would need to know who is using my control, why they are using it and are they competent enough to not screw up and then blame my control.