Ran across a discrepancy in a boundary by myself and another surveyor the other day. So, I called said surveyor and was talking to him, basically putting our heads together on what was happening, when he stated, "if it comes to me going to court, I'll just get my surveys back and give my client their money back." I'd never heard of this. Is this "professional"? Aren't we in the business of giving our opinion? It just struck me as odd, so I thought I'd ask on here and see if anyone else has done the same.
Obviously he has no faith in his work, so does this mean he cedes to you?
His plan does not sound good. If he does this, wouldn't his client then take him to court? At that point is not in a very defensible position.
I've seen it done. Client complained, surveyor wrote cancelled on the survey and gave the money back to the client. In this case it was probably a good idea on his part as I don't think he was included in the lawsuit that was filed. I think he had a better gage on the client than I did and just decided better to get away from the client cheaply for the lost fee than get dragged into something worse. His determination of the boundary was identical to mine.
I would hope the fella on the other end of the line was joking.
> Aren't we in the business of giving our opinion?
There has always been an argument as to whether or not surveyors can "sell" their opinions similar to an attorney's opinion. To me, surveyors report rather than opine.
Here's an interesting view by Knud Hermansen, PLS:
> ... "if it comes to me going to court, I'll just get my surveys back and give my client their money back." ....
If that person thinks this is an approach that will relieve him from liability he should reconsider. If the client has been harmed no amount of taking it back will work. The system doesn't work this way.
Larry P
In my opinion, the surveyor gives an expert opinion on where the existing property line is on a parcel retracement. He doesn't advocate on behalf of his client, or argue law, but limits his opinion in his area of expertise (boundary location).
Two different surveyors can come up with a different determination of where the same boundary line is. Therefore it's not a simple fact they are reporting but a determination based on the evidence found.
As a young man I watched my Mother lose her life savings over a Survey mistake. The Surveyor died in a tractor accident before being served.
If anything I sign results in that level of loss I'll just take my lumps and pay up. I will also leave the tractor parked...
Point being if I say it, I own it. We don't get do-overs...
> .... We don't get do-overs...
Exactly right.
I am reminded of the old saying. Doctors mistakes go to cemetery. Attorneys mistakes to go jail. Surveyors build monuments to our mistakes.
Larry P
:good: Amen
WHEN I've made a mistake (and I was lucky enough to have been the one to have caught it and not another surveyor) then I went, hat in hand, to my previous client, explained it, and offered to pay for all of the curative work to make it right.
I've had to do it once, and I knew the guy. In fact, I graduated high school with his daughter. We've met. He was super cool about it and said "I appreciate you coming to me with this 5 years after you finished the survey. For that, fix it and we are though. If I had found this myself, I'd have crucified you." He wasn't joking either.
Sometimes doing the right thing means admitting when you're wrong. All is well in Abstract No. 55 in Cherokee County now. 🙂
> ... "if it comes to me going to court, I'll just get my surveys back and give my client their money back."
A professional opinion isn't a suicide pact. Open minds can, and should, change when new evidence comes to light. But the client also has a right to act on a professional opinion once given. A surveyor has the responsibility to perform a thorough, professional job. Any court or board that catches wind of this sort of cavalier attitude from a "professional" isn't likely to be sympathetic.
Heavy application of money can solve a lot of problems, but just refunding his fee isn't likely to be enough. This surveyor might worm off the hook by paying his client's legal fees, and probably the legal fees of the other side as well.. Also pay to undo anything that was done in reliance of his survey, like fencing or other structures removed or constructed.
> A professional opinion isn't a suicide pact. Open minds can, and should, change when new evidence comes to light. But the client also has a right to act on a professional opinion once given. A surveyor has the responsibility to perform a thorough, professional job. Any court or board that catches wind of this sort of cavalier attitude from a "professional" isn't likely to be sympathetic.
>
I fully agree. What we do is issue professional opinions. Our opinions, like those of other professionals, are subject to change with a change in the evidence. The question usually hinges on whether or not we met the standard of care in formulating and developing the opinion(s).
If the client decided to sue the surveyor, it wouldn't matter that the surveyor "cancelled", "rescinded", or otherwise pretended that he didn't survey the property, set corner monuments and provide a map for the client to rely on. It also wouldn't matter if the surveyor provided a full refund.
If it came down to one survey vs. another, and one of the surveyors simply "cancelled" his, thinking that would get him out of any liability, the other side would liekly win by default and that surveyor who "cancelled" his survey will have only provided an invitation to his former client to sue him. The duty by the surveyor toward the client would have existed prior to "cancelling" the survey.
Assuming that this is a past survey for which the points were set, the map provided, and the fee collected, the duty associated with that survey does not disappear simply because the surveyor pretends it to not have existed. The former client will likely not have to prove breach of the duty because in "cancelling" his survey, the court would almost certainly view the surveyor as having made an admission of negligence.
If the former client had relied on the survey for anything by which costs were incurred to do the thing, or costs were or would be incurred to undo the thing, then actual damages can be ascertained and the reliance would make the survey the proximate cause.
Attempting to weasel out of liability by pretending the survey never happened or hadn't been provided for the former client to rely on would most likely be viewed as an illegitimate attempt to avoid professional and contractual responsibility (exactly what it is - illegitimate), and almost certainly make the surveyor subject to punitive damages on top of the actual damages. The State Board would is likely to become acutely interested in the matter at that point.
Thanks guys, sheds a lot of light on things hearing another perspective. IMO, it's not very professional. We are in the business of giving our expert opinion and being judged as to the means where we came up with said expert opinion. Don't wanna be judged that way, do something else...
