This is from the OK DOT Specifications for Surveys for Primary and Secondary Highways.....
"4. Benchmarks shall be on points of permanent or semi-permanent nature on, or outside, the anticipated Right of Way, where reasonably possible. Benchmarks in utility poles are considered temporary. Where iron pins are used for benchmarks, the iron pin shall not be less than #6 by 30” long. Nails smaller than 60d shall not be used for benchmarks. For benchmarks in trees, 80d nails or railroad spikes shall be used."
Taken literally, this means that a 60d spike is a suitable benchmark, but a 1/2" stainless steel rod, of any length, driven to refusal and protected by a monument well isn't.
This wording has survived a number of document revisions.
Stay in school kids. Words mean things.
[sarcasm]more regulations please!![/sarcasm]
Every utility provider that uses a pole will clearly tell you to never put a spike or nail in their pole because it causes a dangerous situation for the guy that has to climb the pole.
Around here they will drive it into the pole or pull it out when they find one.
I agree, many specs are full of too many hand me down statements that are not relevant to actual needs and situations.
😉
> Every utility provider that uses a pole will clearly tell you to never put a spike or nail in their pole ...Around here they will drive it into the pole or pull it out when they find one.
That's the way it is in Oregon. But every pole and fence post in Oklahoma within 5 chains of a section corner is studded with spikes. Now, if 1 guy in 10 would file his CCRs...
when they stop auguring up lot corners in new subdivisions for power poles and pedestals, I'll stop driving nails in their power poles.
actually we haven't set a nail in a pole in many years.
I put a RR spike in a power pole once for a TBM. It was scheduled to be removed for construction. The utility company eventually cut out that 4' section of the pole and brought it to our office and left it by the door.
....funny guys....
Words (that) mean (no)thing
I've had the maybe-not-so-pleasurable experience of knowing at least two of the men that are responsible for that wording. Trust me, neither one could remember it, let alone quote it or discuss it intelligently.
But I'm sure they're proud their legacy lives on in ink...
hijack: In the mid-eighties I worked for an engineering consulting firm in Tulsa. I was tasked with updating their contract and construction specifications. All eight hundred and somethin' pages. I was amazed at the "cut and paste" things that had made it into the specs. Some had little or nothing to do with the section they were in.
Of course when I was finished I had left my own mark for posterity...in the General Provisions under the Contract Administration section:
"All that glitters is not gold unless otherwise specified by the Project Engineer or his assigned agent."
The specs were circulated 'mongst the firm's gp and everybody told me what a fine job I had done. Confirming my suspicions that almost nobody reads specs entirely.
Bench mark is two words when used in context with surveying...
> Every utility provider that uses a pole will clearly tell you to never put a spike or nail in their pole because it causes a dangerous situation for the guy that has to climb the pole.
>
> Around here they will drive it into the pole or pull it out when they find one.
>
> I agree, many specs are full of too many hand me down statements that are not relevant to actual needs and situations.
>
> 😉
Some local utility companies around here have let it be known they consider it vandalism! If an employee is injured they make an effort to determine who set the point and will file charges. Including suit for medical costs employees lost income and other damages.
They will remove anything close to a PP and say they are clearing out ground rods
:-S
The 60d item grabbed my attention. I started trying to think of how they could be used without violating the intent. Surely they did not mean they could be placed directly into the soil like the #6 bar 30 inches long. They clearly could not be used in trees for one reason or in power poles for another. My first thought was for insertion in a drilled horizontal hole in a brick or concrete wall. Next came the idea of them being fine for being driven into fence posts. Last came the idea of driving them into asphalt sidewalks, parking lots, etc. that would not be subject to significant movement. The use in posts and asphalt should be rare for permanent benchmarks.
One could argue that a stainless steel alloy is not "iron" and therefore the size specifications for iron do not apply to it.
Ground Rods
Actually, a couple of weeks ago I was looking for a NGS benchmark for a FEMA EC. There were a couple of newer ones (stainless steel rods) within about 7 or 8 blocks so I went looking.
The first was just where it said, NE corner of the intersection in the sidewalk, at street level (supposedly), and about 3 feet from a power pole. I opened the cover and the top of the rod was down a little over 12". Looked strange, so I got a flashlight.
Yep, there it was. With a ground clamp firmly attached and a copper wire heading for the pole! The intersection had been redone and when they redid the sidewalk they just attached the power pole ground to the rod and centered the lid back over the rod. Did a nice job centering it too.
> ... Surely they did not mean they could be placed directly into the soil like the #6 bar 30 inches long....
I'm sure they did not intend that, but that is what they wrote.
> They clearly could not be used in trees for one reason or in power poles for another.
Common practice in Oklahoma says otherwise. 60d nails, and smaller, in fence posts and power poles are very commonly used for benchmarks and corner references. In fact, I'm certain that this is just what they did mean, but did not clearly express.
> My first thought was for insertion in a drilled horizontal hole in a brick or concrete wall.
Chiseled or scratched crosses in concrete serve as monuments for all purposes. Very common. Drilled? For that you would need a drill!
> Next came the idea of them being fine for being driven into fence posts.
No matter how wobbly the post.
Last came the idea of driving them into asphalt sidewalks, parking lots, etc. that would not be subject to significant movement. The use in posts and asphalt should be rare for permanent benchmarks.
> A mag nail in asphalt is for high dollar jobs only.
Words (that) mean (no)thing
> Of course when I was finished I had left my own mark for posterity...in the General Provisions under the Contract Administration section:
>
> "All that glitters is not gold unless otherwise specified by the Project Engineer or his assigned agent."
>
> The specs were circulated 'mongst the firm's gp and everybody told me what a fine job I had done. Confirming my suspicions that almost nobody reads specs entirely.
That's absolutely classic! :good:
> One could argue that a stainless steel alloy is not "iron" and therefore the size specifications for iron do not apply to it.
It wouldn't be much of an argument, though, considering that ordinary stainless steel has about the same iron content as the steel used in ordinary rebars.
Some of the surveying specs on PaDOT projects harken back to the days of the 100' tape and transit.
> Some of the surveying specs on PaDOT projects harken back to the days of the 100' tape and transit.
Very much true for these OK specs..
F. All POT’s, PI’s, PC’s, PT’s, and POST’s or any other principal control point ... shall be referenced to permanent points. ...... A minimum of three reference points shall be set on each point referenced and arranged so that, at least two of the reference points shall fall on a true line passing through the point being referenced, either by both reference points being on the same side or on both sides, with the angle from the line or lines to be as great as practical (near perpendicular to one another, for maximum strength of figure)....
Very appropriate for transit and tape work, but no particular value in a GPS world.
