Will reflectorless work for Topo?

I'm not sure if anyone even still makes a total station that isn't reflectorless, but in any case yes it's a great tool and one that you will definitely use more and more as you grow accustomed to having it available.

There are two things you should look at when considering a reflectorless gun:

1) Range - usually they rate them to Kodak 70% gray scale; you need to make sure you're comparing apples and apples. An instrument rated at, say, 300m will shoot a lot farther to anything that is highly reflective. If a gun is rated at 1000m that doesn't mean you'll ever try to shoot it that far; it just means that you have a better chance of getting that power line sag at 400'.

2) Beam diameter (or spot size or beam focus) - how much does the beam disperse over distance. If your spot size has a 2' diameter at the distance you're trying to shoot you'll get either a wrong answer (if there are multiple targets) or no answer at all (to, say, a power line). All lasers disperse over distance, but you want to try to look for one with a tightly focused beam.

On my own personal equipment i use it as often as possible. If you're concerned over elevations here's what i've done in the past. Tree locations i've put a paint dot at same height looking back at gun. Forestry paint works great. walk back to gun shoot away never having to change height. I did a 30 acre tree survey that way alone in 3 days. I've put marker lines on bldgs too at set heights. When elevation doesn't matter i put in a rod height of 99', that way i just take out that height from the shots in topo. I recently did a stream asbuilt almost entirely reflectorless from the other side at a slightly higher elevation to look down. Edge water, bottom bank, ground, top bank. Just had to set instrument lower to look through scope without standing on gun case.

I just wish the office i work for most of the time would invest in newer gear. I've thrown out better gear than some of the stuff they use on a daily basis.

Thanks for the input.

I've always been a Nikon guy. They're refelctorless models seem to focus the beam to whatever you're trying to shoot. Sounds like that is an advantage. I just don't like Trimble (who now owns Nikon). I didn't think I would buy another Nikon because of their affiliation with Trimble. But, who knows...

Nikon shave improved somewhat. But not to the level trimble or leica did with the reflector-less. I did a lot of cell tower locations with the nikon nivo locating the tops and antenna and lightning rods for height. Most of the time you had to aim the cross hairs slightly lower. The beam would diffuse and time out. Sometimes we would set the trimble s8 on same control point. Aim cross hairs exactly on tip and it shot it every time. We double checked the heights even doing crosses on different points. Worked great. But the nikon had a lower height due to lowering the cross hairs to shoot. I do like the nikons due to light weight and speed on shots. Some shots through the woods I always say only the nikon could've gotten that!

As much as I like the Nikon Nivo, I have to agree that I've found their reflectorless to be lacking. I think it's better than it was before they became affiliated with Trimble, but I don't think it compares with Leica, Trimble (in the S-Series guns), or even Topcon - and this is coming from someone who is no fan of Topcon.

I used a Topcon a while back to shoot power lines that our Spectra Focus 6 wouldn't get. It was like looking through a fog bank compared to the Spectra's Nikon optics, but it got the shots and we were able to verify through various QC measures that they were accurate.

I have had reasonably good luck in urban settings with lots of concrete and asphalt surfaces. Haven't had great luck in the woods with forest litter surfaces. Standing water of any depth in any setting is not good.

> If you have experience with reflectorless; I'd love to hear your feedback. Is it worth it? Do you use reflectorless mode very often? Is it only useful for difficult to reach objects(powerlines, etc.)?
IMO, just about everything that sticks up out of the ground is a candidate to be tied with reflectorless. Signs, poles, fences, building walls, trees, hydrants, cabinets - you name it. If you buy a new gun it will likely have reflectorless. Think of ways to maximize it.

Buildings - instead of tying corners get two reflectorless shots along each wall, then, back in the office, extend and fillet the lines to form the corners.

Trees - yes, I prefer to leave them out of the DTM. Using reflectorless to get the trees, then collecting ground shots in the open spaces- overall, it's quicker.

I use reflectorless almost daily as a supplement to GPS. Very useful tool for topography, and remarkably accurate.

I use little blocks of wood and craft sticks (sprayed pink) for targets on the ground, and masking tape on building corners or for finished flood elevations.

We don't even try to get building corners any more. I have the crew hit each face reflector less at least 4 times. We get a good idea of what the potential error is that way...

Ever think about using a Sokkia CX 105?

thanks for all the feedback. i was afraid this would be like the on-board data collectors. (common feature that no one uses).

Yes. DR works for topo. I don't know how one would work without the feature.

> Yes. DR works for topo. I don't know how one would work without the feature.

You should see the company that I do work for sometimes....it's like stepping back in time through a worm hole. Old instruments, older software, nothing gets updated, no large scanner. Offset alot of shots, onboard data collectors make it a pain. have to hit the same key three time to get the right character, or forget it with gloves on. In cold days lucky to get 30 shots off before battery dies. No gps, no reflectorless, bent survey poles, instument legs held together with duct tape.
I've shown them my gear and what it can do, but they don't want to pay for use, so in the truck it stays. Most things i know i can do in a 1/4 of the time....alone.
I feel bad when they get work from other companies and they have to ask to dumb down the drawing to cad 2004, then the files are too big they can't open it. Makes me cringe everytime.

>..I have the crew hit each face reflector less at least 4 times....
And they can get those 4 shots in about 15 seconds.

Yes, Reflectorless Topo At Night

I have done some topo by specifically going to the site later in the day. I get everything I need with hard shoots, take a break and then do my topo reflectorless after sunset when I can see where the shot is. Usually a rod height of zero and focus on my laser on the grass or ground. With reflectorless on I push the measure button on the instrument. By visually watching the shot I can tell if I am going to get a good return. It is not necessary to even look through the eyepiece. Usually I am tweaking the knobs to get a nice single image. Then I hit my data collector shot button and move on. For distant topo where I just need the lay of the land I might estimate a rod height and shoot buildings, trees or poles. With my SMI if I am using a rod height I can shoot separate distance and angle, once I have a distance then turn to adjust vertically then push the angle button, the software knows it was a different vertical angle and it zeroes the rod for that shot.

Because it may take several instrument measures to get the instrument pointed where I want and that reflectorless uses more power I make sure all instrument batteries are charged.

I also use the night shots when I want offsite structures located (no elevations) and do not want to enter the property. Sometimes it is hard to know if you are getting a corner, so I do a group of building line shots (4) and construct the corner in CAD. Sometimes even a shot group for an inside corner. Electronic data shots are cheap and memory is more or less unlimited for typical projects.

Paul in PA

You guys are living in the dark ages.

Centerline of the road, but you need to verify that you don't have a false positive.

Building - TDS has a plane & angle feature - 3 points on the plane, horizontal angle to the corner or if you can see the ground turn on down to it and you could have a good elevation.

Fences, signs, and all those goodies can be located.

We have building height requirements and we can hit just about anything. That is the best place to practice because the laser can shoot right on by when you are aimed a little too high.

I have never tired a power line, I feel like we have too much wind.

Ground shots can work BUT you are likely hitting the grass...

I had a I-Man who would just shoot things when there was down time. Usually when I was talking to a neighbor he would put the gun into reflectorless and just start shooting.

You will find uses for the equipment if you look for them. Test and check though, you could find a centerline of a road is located on a car...

That's right, measure up 5.00' and make a mark on each thing needed...then go back and shoot them reflectorless with a TH of 5.00.

WARNING:
ERROR 501: DATA OVERLOAD********DATA OVERLOAD**********DATA OVERLOAD

No thanks. My head hurts enough as it is.