Just walked through a $4 million dollar residential property with an owner. She thought her land went to the fence because the realtor told her so. Well, the corners we found told a different story. She didn't really care (big lot plenty of room, and she was completely reasonable).
I was left shaking my head about how you don't get a survey when you buy a $4 million property, but hey they know lots of things I don't, because I couldn't afford the property taxes on her home.
I apologize for not being clear. I was simply agreeing with you. 🙂
The sit down is a great idea. It can take far longer to explain over the phone, and those are not usually billable minutes.
Just walked through a $4 million dollar residential property with an owner. She thought her land went to the fence because the realtor told her so. Well, the corners we found told a different story. She didn't really care (big lot plenty of room, and she was completely reasonable).
I was left shaking my head about how you don't get a survey when you buy a $4 million property, but hey they know lots of things I don't, because I couldn't afford the property taxes on her home.
I was just talking to a woman about this sort of thing this weekend.?ÿ She grew up in Germany and moved to California 20 years ago, and moved to Boise almost a year ago where she quickly dove into buying properties.?ÿ Her first comment was "Wait.. can't you sue the realtor for being lied to?"?ÿ I kind of laughed at first because it's one of those things that sounds logical yet never hear of happening because, I guess, they're salesmen and that's just what salesman do...?ÿ But the more I thought about it the more I started thinking it really does seem like a form of fraud to misrepresent a product like that, even if it is done casually.
The price of the property shouldn't have any bearing on the value of the survey though, right??ÿ Do you scratch your head when the buyer of a patch of $5 desert scrubland declines having a survey performed?
My first reaction was to think ill of the realtor. Then I realized - he/she probably only got half of the $240,000 commission so thinking that they should take the time to get and provide factual information to answer the buyers question about the lot is a really big ask. You can't fault a dog for barking, the sun for rising, or a realtor for... what is it that realtors do anyway?
<sarcasm off>
I apologize also. There has been some deadline induced tension in the office this morning that perhaps led me read something that wasn't there.
I got a call a few months ago from an irate adjoiner who wanted to know why I filed an "incorrect survey" and "put a cloud" on his title.?ÿ I explained that because the matter is in litigation (he's suing my client) I'm not able to discuss the matter with him, and that he should work through his attorney.?ÿ He kept insisting -- rather belligerently -- that we meet, and after the third time explaining that I can't discuss the matter I finally hung up on him.
In the Spring of 1991 I received a call from a neighbor when the job was complete.?ÿ It wasn't the neighbor the client had been feuding with.?ÿ The one on the opposite side.?ÿ This guy was a classmate of mine from high school.?ÿ He was very nice about it but insisted I should recheck my work as he had done a bunch of measuring and found that either my survey was wrong or the whole city block was wrong.?ÿ I agreed to look over my work.
?ÿ
DAM_MIT, he was correct.?ÿ Had to go back and move everything 10 feet further west due to an addition error I had made in my head while attempting to ignore the client's constant chatter.
the value of getting a survey is directly proportional to the value of the property. Most lenders want extended coverage on the title policy for commercial properties, and that is what drives ALTA surveys around here. I am guessing this particular property was obtained without a lender, and so no one demanded extended coverage and therefore no ALTA...
Well, even in a non-dual agency situation I wouldn't trust my agent. It's in both agent's interest to drive up the price since they collect the same commission. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see dual agency is letting the fox into the hen house. And fiduciary duty? Pfft, another legal concept that's virtually impossible to prove in a court of law...
Over the past 20 years I've done retracementss of "lots" in a block of meets and bounds tracts. These are usually a nightmare but this particular "block" actually fit ok was reasonably well surveyed and many original monuments still in all neighbors living peacefully so I pretty much have each lot figured out by now. Was happy to take a call this summer. Saw an original pipe pulled out and laying about 20 feet out of whack. Set my pin where the pipe used to be. Got numerous unhappy texts. Emails and voicemails from unhappy neighbor demanding I show how and why I set pin on his land. Client called and said my pin was removed. I recommended calling sheriff.?ÿ
You are factually incorrect. In Maine, there is PLS/client confidentiality. A client can forbid me from disclosing boundary information or any survey data to their neighbor or anyone else. They could ask me not to tell their neighbor where their mutual boundary is.
The public does not pay me, my client does. In fact, the last time I tried to give a nearby county some old unrecorded plats, they said, "No thank you."
I am not an advocate. The facts direct me to the boundary location, but I view my job as solving my clients particular problem and give little thought to being a steward of the cadastre . Maybe a good analogy would be, "Mind your pennies and your dollars will take care of themselves."
I can certainly understand how someone working in the PLSS would have such a macro view of their role as a surveyor. Error in your boundary determinations spreads like a virus across many thousands of feet. In the east, we have no blueprint, no comparison, no ideal of a perfect square or an exactly true meridian. I safe guard the public by doing good work on each individual parcel I survey.
I go to great lengths to tailor my work to my clients needs. If they only need one line surveyed, I will do this but I'll also explain why it might cost the same as a complete boundary. These days I've been providing my clients .kmz files of their boundary as well as a plat with the boundary overlaid on the ortho. My clients are my priority, the public is just a benefactor. Not only does the public not value my work, they charge me exorbitant fees to allow people to access it.
You probably can't sue realtors because they don't officially claim to be experts on boundary location, and therefore, are just giving unqualified opinions on location. Opinions that the general public are expected to know aren't worth any more than if a plumber who worked in the house told them where the line is.
The problem is that the general public look to realtors for their "expertise" and knowledge, and think that their word and opinion on everything have standing, even where it shouldn't.
Somehow realtors have been able to skate along without being called out for price fixing, lying, or at least failure to disclose potential issues that may hinder a sale, which they have a financial vested interest in seeing complete. I'm sure they must have enough weasel clauses that allow them to remain spotless and immune to litigation.
Still, it would be nice to see one of them called out and be held liable for things they tell, or fail to tell potential buyers.
Thank you for making that so clear.
One thing we all must keep in mind here is that there are great differences amongst us and our work and our governing authorities. What works for one does not necessarily work for all. Absolutes are rare.
The Real Estate Commission in the state is the one who metes out penalties, including license removal, for bad behavior by agents and brokers. They are dead serious about it. When someone has a serious problem concerning an agent or broker, they need to contact the Real Estate Commission and learn the process that can be used to investigate that license holder and what information they need to provide.
Oh, you can sue realtors. When I bought my house I discovered a few months later that my agent and the seller's agent had forged the disclosure documents, which was why I never saw them at the time of sale. Had they been filled out honestly, they would have disclosed a pre-existing situation that likely would have affected the value and possibly changed my mind. When the dust settled, I got a very nice check, about 1/3 of what I paid for the house. I am still convinced that had I taken it to trial instead of settling, the punitive damage award would have paid my mortgage off. Paid for all of my landscaping, spa, and then some though. That was 23 years ago.
Good for you. Still, the forging of documents is probably much higher up on the Sh** list than, "the realtor told me I owned those shrubs".
I did the same thing earlier this year!
The client insisted that I had made a 10' error (it made his gravel driveway encroach on the neighbor a couple feet). And damn if he wasn't right...
