The following is hypothetical.
Suppose a client ask you to survey a parcel of land. It happens to be in close proximity to a public beach.
The reason for the survey, is to map the improvements of the property for a potential sale. I am working for the owner of the property.
In my research of the property, I come across a map in the city Engineers office, that indicates the city may take an easement across the property in back of the street line, so on private property, for a sidewalk, with temporary grading rights even further into my clients property.
Now this map is just a work map. Its not on file anywhere in the land records, its not even an official engineering map on file in the engineering office. Basically its a work map, of something that could, maybe, one day happen.
Would you depict the proposed easement, along with grading rights on the map?
If not would you make reference to it?
We have a full four drawer filing cabinet back in Lawton that is labeled "Projects with a life of their own". They span about 30 years. All surveyed, most designed and none built. And the important part is that no deeds, leases, easements or any other documents have ever changed hands.
Until it's of record then it really doesn't exist. Some will likely get built in the future but many will not.
Our local planning group would tell us 'this one is for sure' and then council would not fund it and it would fade into history and this filing cabinet.
The thing I always watched was if the taking of land was funded. Until that point it's just pretty pictures of what might be.
Some projects, especially those that involve major changes or ones that will obviously have a lot of citizen complaints are those that can take years or even never.
Good luck but I could not show it on a map until there is something of record.
Agree with Deral, why open the ol can of worms? There are enough problems of record to deal with.
Randy
I think I would attach a written report when I deliver the survey, but I wouldn't note it on the plat. If it was an ALTA survey, I sure would do something.
I would refer you to the "Surveyors Inspection Report" form that is still used in my area where they ask for "proposed or contemplated" projects known of.
I would pass this information on to the client as being something to be concerned with should any thing come along to suggest there might be action forthcoming. I most definitely would not make any mention of this in any form on my plat.
I Think Anyone Who Buys Along A Road...
...should expect that at some time it may be widened, require curb and/or sidewalk or all three.
Paul in PA
We should all put a note on all of our drawings:
This property is subject to Eminent Domain.
I believe it would be prudent to reveal it. Otherwise, you are exposed to whatever consequences might arise from not having done so.
I would think verbally making the client aware would be the thing to do.
If you documented the information, it could decrease the value and marketability of the property and harm your client. As the info is essentially gossip, there would be no ethical reason for written disclosure.
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> Suppose a client ask you to survey a parcel of land. It happens to be in close proximity to a public beach.
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Hold it right there. I just want to go to the beach!!!
Seriously, disclose it to your client, and tell him what you can honestly tell him. He ***MAY*** know stuff that you may not know. That way it is up to him. He may accidentally tell you stuff, that warns you that the project is still alive, or he may tell you stuff, that you should know... like a buried water line, or whatever that is related to it, and keeps it alive.
N
Disclose the possibility in a written document to the client but do not show on your survey. This way you can show that you made the client aware of it.
Interesting replies..
..to this post and my previous post [msg=199066]Ethics Question[/msg].
In my mind it stirs up a basic question:
What disclosure responsibilities do professional surveyors have to their clients and the general public? In my opinion it's a very grey area.
Case in point:
A number of years ago I was contracted to perform boundary surveys of private parcels for the "Oklahoma Turnpike Authority" along a thirty-something mile long proposed route.
The OTA is NOT a government agency. The OTA is a quasi-private organization that operates under some "good old boy" laws that were shoved through the Oklahoma legislature in the late '50s so a lot of men could make a lot of money. Today they operate under the guise of a public entity, but they are not.
I completed these boundaries under a "Right of Entry" agreement between the land owners and the OTA. The agreement gave the the OTA, their agents and assigns, the right to "enter the property for inspection and evaluation for the determination of suitability for a proposed route".
I possessed a functional set of plans with centerline and r/w widths. We were prohibited, by contract, to carry these plans, or reproductions thereof, in the field. I and my employees were also prohibited, by contract, to speak with any property owners about anything other than conversations "incidental to the access of their properties as described in the Right of Entry agreement."
Nobody wanted the turnpike there and we were very unpopular people. A majority of the route was condemned and taken through eminent domain. Most of the court time was spent determining monetary evaluation. Most of the property owners really got nothing but a stipen. The attornies giggled all the way to the bank and the "highway rolled right on through, just like they had planned".
So again I ask, "Where is the rule book concerning disclosure to either your client or the general public?" I think it's at the very end of the shelf under "very grey areas."
Interesting replies..
"So again I ask, "Where is the rule book concerning disclosure to either your client or the general public?" I think it's at the very end of the shelf under "very grey areas.""
Exactly. There can't be a rule for everything. It is the unruled grey areas that are defined as "ethics".
I had a similar situation to the one posted here, I put a note on the map. I think it's my job to bring things to light of day. The parties can then research and contemplate further about how it is beneficial or not to them.
But I would not give out confidential planned uses of the property that my client has shared with me, when the client is trying to acquire land. That is a different situation.
Years ago, I decided that pulling a chain was not all I wanted to show for my life.
Part of having loyal clients that will return and bring others is to give them reasons to pick up their phone and call me.
I never like hearing a client ask me why I did not do something that would have helped them.
Providing quality product and sound advice when needed goes far in that direction. When I see something that will benefit my client, I relay the information for what it is worth.
Some days the right information can be worth more than your survey fee.
0.02
I agree with most of the replies; inform your client, but not necessary to put on map. Good job on the research.
I didn't fully read all of the responses, but quickly scanned a few. I think I'm basically in agreement with most.
Unless this drawing is an active part of a project that is active at some level, it is not something that I would reference on my drawing. I would, however disclose it to my client. I don't believe it rises to the level of a disclosable item in a real estate transaction if it isn't an element of a project in active design or for which no RW acquisition work is underway or pending. But I would let the client go to his RE agent or attorney for that advice.
As to reporting on the survey drawing, unless it has some record documentation or is an element of an active project, it's just some designer's pipe dream.