To another surveyor when I find one of their recently recorded plats appears to contain a number of errors. I'm doing a design survey to get a fiber optic cable to a cell tower and I need to show improvements along the route and how they relate to the highway ROW. Finding a recently recorded plat by another surveyor, I'm thinking I've struck gold, but on further analysis I find major discrepencies between the plat dimensions for the ROW and the original State DOT survey done in the 1960s. After recovering the the old 6"x6" original concrete high ROW markers as well as centerline monuments, I'm finding not only are the plats dimensions incorrect, but the monuments set and referenced by the plats are anywhere from 2' to 4' into the ROW. I felt obligated to call them and let them know they need to take a closer look at their work on this subdivision because I'm finding things aren't adding up, and not by tenths but by muliple feet. After talking with their head surveyor, I was left with the distinct impression that they just aren't that concerned about it. He's getting close to retirement. I seriously question whether there will be any follow up. Meanwhile, when I go to stake this project for construction, it could become an issue with the land owner when my stakes are several feet into his property past these monuments he recently paid to have set and I may be forced to explain what I found.
I suppose I just need to triple check my work and let the chips fall where they may. What else can I do?
I'd show the other surveyor your work, your basis of controlling elements and back up your opinion. Give him the opportunity to do the same and If he can somehow justify his work with no regard for yours keeping things amiss then I'd probably verify your findings with the affected DOT to get their take. All you can do is explain your findings and your basis to the parties affected and the chips will fall. Retirement does not stop liability or the ability to make things right.
> I suppose I just need to triple check my work and let the chips fall where they may. What else can I do?
not much else, just check and check again... you don't want egg on your face too.
maybe a second phone call would be nice, and maybe email a copy of your work for him to see the issues.
good luck!
PS: make sure your client is aware Before you do any staking... you would look real bad even if it is not of your making.
Tread Cautiously
Monuments along a highway 2'-4' off may in fact be correct, so do not tell him he is wrong. You want to request any additional information he may have that you do not have.
Paul in PA
Tread Cautiously
Sound advice. This has been my concern and my approach when I called them on it. 'What do you know about this that I don't'. I really don't want to cause them embarassment, nor myself. The orignal controlling monuments for this ROW are in place and in good condition and agree with record well. What clued me in that there might be a problem was the curve data they show that has a radius that differs from record by 87'. 2677.79' vs. the record of 2764.79'. Typically in my experience, the radius is the last thing in curve data to get fudged. Using their curve data on the plat, nothing really makes sense, but the actual corners they set are only off the record radius by 2-4', into the ROW.
I'll follow up in a week or two by sending them an ASCII file of what we tied, after I hit the corners in question again from a different set up to see if I get the same result.
Been my experience that 90% of the time I think I've uncovered some error, it turns out to be mine. So I really don't care to go shooting off and end up making a fool of myself.
>What else can I do?
If you believe you have discovered an error on the part of a fellow professional you are obliged to report it to your fellow professional. You did that.
If your fellow professional fails to respond in a substantive way, you may have evidence of gross incompetence. Seems to me you have that.
If you believe you have evidence of gross incompetence you are obliged to report it to your state board.
Tread Cautiously
I would carefully recheck the math on the curve. There can be multiple radii used in a curve situtation, that are not neccesarily concentric. An interior or center radius could end up being noted for the exterior. Some other math may disclose that sort of error. If you can post the entire curve. Errors can also result from someone missing that there is a equation in or near the curve. An equation might state that 1627+07.28B = 1627+05.33A. They are almost always required when redesigns are finally stitched together for construction. I am unsure of the general terminology so I have used B=back and A=ahead.
Then again the surveyor may have located the actual curve constructed and used that radius.
Paul in PA
Review it with him again and suggest that if he does not correct his blunders he should plan an immediate retirement.
Tread Cautiously
As others have said, first be sure your data and information is good. I'd also suggest you check with the DOT to be sure you have the correct set of plans, and also verify the plan ROW and highway data with the taking documents (deeds). It isn't that uncommon for there to be multiple designs, some of which do not agree with what was acquired from the adjoiners.
Who sets your highway monuments? I agree with Paul that the lcoation may be corret, based on who set them, and that they are out of position. Ar ound here it's kind of known that highway monuments aren't "exact" but show an approximate location.
I'm doing something I rarely do which is call on some surveyor friends over at DOT and get a second opinion.
The worst part of all of this is after my conversation with the surveyor in question, whom I've worked for before and respect, I got the impression that he may be beginning to show signs of dimentia. My words didn't seem to register and he asked no questions.
I will tread very carefully.
Contractor Set Monuments
show that the contractor read the contract, nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, +/- 2 feet is very good.
Most ROW takings have even less precision to the property monuments.
I recall something my father said many years ago.
A surveyor stopped by to say he could not find the "monuments to be set" in the subdivision he owned.
My father pointed to a pile in the backyard and said, "They are setting over there."
Paul in PA
Forget who is right or wrong for a second and just contact him and say you are trying to figure out where the right of way is. Ask how he established it on the map you have, and share what you found. If he did make a mistake it's better to find out from you than from someone's attorney seeking money for damages a few years down the road.
I see you're in Alaska. I've done quite a bit of work in the Valley and Anchorage and I can say that setting up a meeting with the surveyor and try a sit down meeting works wonders. With some preliminary results you have, and the research you have, maybe you can hash out the details without pointing fingers. If it's as bad as you say, I hope the other surveyor can see the light. I know many of them quite well and all are moslty personable..and have quite a bit of experience. My personal opinion says tread lightly and use the board as a last result. I know some of 6" conc mons have been disregarded on certain ROWs because many don't work with record or measured CL....but I'm not sure where it is you're having a problem, so in your talks be sure it's not a question of evidence and what was held and not held. Many old timers there measure CL, hold a record CL radius, but create it at where it calcs out by field measurement. I was told by many old timers there that some of the 6" mons that were above grade had been hit by equipment on road projects and just put nearby by the contractors but it sounds like they match within themselves from what you say.
