Hello all, fairly new to the board, been lurking and trying to learn as much as I can.
First off, I'm a bending engineer on pipeline construction. No degree required, just an engineer in name only. Basically I make straight pipe fit crooked ditch. Historically an Abney hand level for sags and overbends and a tape measure for sidebends is all that is required to engineer most bends. Just hop in the ditch and start measuring. Using a theodolite, and in my case a digital theodolite, brings the accuracy up on the sidebends.
For the past 4 or 5 years various survey crews doing the as-built have suggested that I switch to a total station but I couldn't wrap my head around what I could do with one. This past year I was put in charge of installing 40+ valve settings across the Pennsylvania for a rehabilitation project. Long story short I rented one for a week and saw that I could use it for the installs. When I returned it they showed me a used Nikon they had and I bought it.
It exceeded my expectations and as time went on I began to utilize it for some of the traditional engineering on short replacements. I then started using it on longer sections and now am comfortable enough to use it for mainline engineering. I want to get ahead of the game because every year it gets harder to get into the ditch to engineer (safety, not my old body)
I'm looking to upgrade and I'm really interested in the Topcon ES-105 with the Tesla field controller. The main draw for me it the long link capabilities. I would like to be able to, in most situations, be at the prism where I can chose where the bends need to fall. I also am drawn toward the Tesla with the bigger screen and the ability to run spreadsheets (I always give the survey crew a full list of joints, heat stamp numbers, my joint numbers, lengths, bends and where they fall in the joint) and pull up the line sheets or site drawings.
My question is if anyone has any suggestions for something better. This is an individual purchase, so a robotic is out...
For a little background I'll add a few pictures to show some different scenarios.
First is a typical site where both ends are fixed and I have to bend to fit fairly exact (within 1/2° or less). Traditionally in this situation the engineering would sometimes take up to an hour, currently I can do it within 10 minutes. I use a center finder and place two top marks as far apart as I can on each tie in stubs, then use a short rod and prism, or go reflectorless if I can see all points clearly (I use glazing points and small magnets to define the top of pipe marks)
Next is fairly typical series of sidebends where we laid ahead of the ditch. Traditionally after I engineered the PIs (and made sure I could fit the bends in the pipe) I set offset stakes in the treeline because the ditchline stakes always get plowed over. Now I just set some control points and can stake out the PIs if they get destroyed.
Next is a section going under existing utilities. Traditionally I set up either a theodolite or auto level and take shots on top of the foreign liens with a grade rod to calculate the bends to maintain the required clearance. Now I just take a shot on top of the existing foreign line, add the diameter and required separation as the prism height.
Finally for the curious, a shot of the bending of the pipe.
Thanks
Nice photos. What's carried in those pipes, and at what pressures? Are they machine welded? Just curious.
Thanks, that line was designed for 1480psi (will carry about 1000psi) for natural gas. Stick welded, 100% x-ray.
I've been using the Tesla for 6 months; it's okay. Windows Mobile leaves a lot to be desired in terms of functionality. Magnet is decent, but quirky at times.
You might want to try out a Trimble robot with VISION, which gives you a video feed to look at. They offer a Windows 7 tablet that runs a full blown version of Excel.
It's been six months, and I miss Trimble gear everyday. So many little bells and whistles, didn't realize how much I'd miss them.
> It's been six months, and I miss Trimble gear everyday. So many little bells and whistles, didn't realize how much I'd miss them.
"The sun is shining, but it's raining in my heart, so please, please come back honey and we'll make a brand new start" (...) :music:
Just kidding my good man, I reckon Trimble is allright.
So, Bender, (ok I just had to go for that one), welcome aboard.
I would think for around $3,500± you could get a nice Sokkia or Nikon reflectorless TS that would shoot to a painted or tape target and even to a cross marked in pencil on the pipe itself.
There are so many possibilities with one and still you can shoot the long distances with a prism when needed.
B-)
The ES103 and Telsa wirh Magnet Field Layout are a good combo for you. I would suggest the ToughPad FZ-M1 in Windows 7 or 8 in place the Tesla. It will run Magnet much faster than Tesla, plus CAD and MS Office or any Windows software. Plus it is less expensive than Tesla. It has an i5 processor, 8gb Ram, and 128gb SSD, WiFi, Bluetooth. The long range Bluetooth will allow you to have controller at the rod. Which sound like what you want. If so you may want to try a Topcon DS Robotic Total Station.
In 2014 I have trained many contractors like your self whom are interested in taking advantage of this technology. Some surveyors feel this is taking work away from them. Not true. For many years contractors have been doing the layout yourself with a lock level, lasers and tape. They still need baseline, guidance and asbuilts from a surveyor. These contractora then team up with their surveyor to verify the contract plans and provide data for the controller.
LeeGreen.com
Glad you see it that I'm not trying to take any work. Since I started using my TS I have received positive feedback from the surveyors in the field. I'm not trying to take any work, as you say I'm utilizing the technology to make my work easier but most importantly be more accurate.
As stated above, over the past 4 or 5 years, I have always provided as much information as I could to the surveyors on my bends and pipe information to assist them as much as possible. Numerous times it has saved them from getting in the ditch to verify a bend or take rock shield off to verify a missing heat stamp number. I wish I had saved all the contact information. They were always willing to get shots on my PIs and stake out if needed.
As I'm using an older Nikon NPL-632 right now, would there be a way to connect the Toughbook? For now I'm regulated to using it until I can sell and buy new.
All that I now know I can use Magnet for is very basic COGO. Inverse for point to point to get the slope distance, % of slope to calculate my sags and overbends, 3 point angle to calculate my sidebends. I also use one function to project where the pipe will be at my bend so I can calculate the bends at that point.
This is where a TS has benifited me with time savings. Normally I would place two top marks, use a laser to project where the pipe will be where I think I can make a bend fit and set a stake. I do that on both sides. I then would set up a theodolite, turn my PIs, take shots and calculate any sags or overbends. If the bends were too stiff to be able to get them in the joint of pipe at that spot I would have to reset and do it again. Now I can tell it to set a point 12' from the end of existing pipe and if that doesn't work I can tell it to set a point 14' and check that.
This also allows me to come in just as soon as the pipe is exposed and get my shots and not have the entire ditch opened. It also allows the foreman to be able to install a road or creek crossing and be able to backfill the pipe if needed as soon as I get some shots and set control points. Days or weeks later when they are ready to lay into the previously installed pipe I can resect and then engineer to tie in. This saves the company valuable time and money.
I'm rambling, but basically I wouldn't be using a fraction of Magnet's capabilites. I'm more interested in having the ability to see the points on a screen, in real time, to be able to verify that my right turns are actually rights... On big bends it's quite obvious, but with smaller bends it isn't.
How do you think Magnet would perform with this in mind? Would it be too cumbersome?
Actually I have a "Bender" vinyl sticker on my work truck. It doesn't show the best, but here it is...
Great post. Welcome aboard. Happy New Year.
I would suggest you also look at Leica Disto D8 as an additional measuring instrument to your total station. The built in inclinometer is very handy for this type of work.
Which ever TS you get, make sure it has reflectorless capabilities.
RF,
>>As I'm using an older Nikon NPL-632 right now, would there be a way to connect the
>>Toughbook? For now I'm regulated to using it until I can sell and buy new.
Yes, you can purchase a long range bluetooth adapter and connect it to the Nikon NPL-632 and essentially allow this to work identical to the ES-103 for only a few hundred dollars. It should give you at least 400-500ft range with standard bluetooth class 2 in data controller, and more range with long range bluetooth class 1 in data controller (Tesla and ToughPad have this).
LeeGreen.com
The picture, didn't work from my phone
My TS now, an NPL-632, has reflectorless capabilities. I used to shoot at a short prism pole, but then found that I could go reflectorless with my laborer holding a knife point in the divot made with a center finder (top of pipe). I got to thinking and looking and found small magnets and glazing points which has worked very well. It also allows me to place them immediately when I make my top mark and keep my laborer out of the ditch. They are cheap enough that I don't mind leaving them.
I also use roofing nails and round plastic survey disk markers in surrounding trees to use as control points reflectorless. I have had great success doing this.
Although I am interested in accuracy the true requirements for 90% of my work is minutes, not seconds.
My philosophy is to keep as tight as I can with what I do and whatever slop is added in behind, (be it bending, rolling the bends while welding, or the actual welding) is less.
In other threads on the board I saw something like this. I would like to have an actual computer like the ToughPad. I might go this route for a while.
Thanks
Although not as nice, I do use a laser distance meter for when I need to measure pipe in a stockpile.
The TS I currently use has reflectorless capabilities. And although the only other bending engineer I know that uses a TS told me not to worry about getting the capability, I'm grateful that I did.
Reflexite REF DB Retroreflective tape is good for similar applications and comes in many colors and widths from 1" to 8" and lasts.
I use the silver-White on mutiple surfaces turning most any object lath, pvc, washers, rebar, pipe and many other into a target and extend the capabilities of your reflectorless.
😉
> I use the silver-White on mutiple surfaces turning most any object lath, pvc, washers, rebar, pipe and many other into a target and extend the capabilities of your reflectorless.
>
Does this stuff have an effective "prism" offset of zero?
RF,
From the looks of the gear in your avatar photo, I'd also recommend you get a heavy duty wood or composite tripod. Those light weight Home Depot aluminium tripod legs are not stable, as I'm sure you have discovered.
LeeGreen.com
Yes,I have checked and get the same results as shooting the face of a correctly aimed prism, this stuff is very thin. I have it on the backside of my gammon reel.
