Peter Ehlert, post: 440777, member: 60 wrote: You need to understand something. The current cookbook (and the numerous ones that came before it) is a set of instructions for the Subdivision of Federal Lands. Once those lands pass to the Public it has much less importance. That is when we use it as a Guide to understanding the possible methods of setting those original corners... taking into account what was actually done (using old instructions) is Step One.
Personally I have not encountered but a handful of surveys that adjoined Federal Land.The Manual Of Instructions is a History Book for the normal surveyor in PLSSia... unless you are actively working in remote Alaska,
I agree on the Federal Lands following the manual, however are most City and County requirements to follow the manual or tie into a section corner?
Scott Ellis, post: 440774, member: 7154 wrote: How I am mistaken? Is there not a book on how to survey in PLSS states with step by step how to solve the boundary and where to set the corners? My understanding is not limited on PLSS, I had to read the manual in College and also to study for the RPLS exam. I put the book down and thought wow this is such an easy way to Survey. Not only that but in a recording state it must be even easier.
Must be so bad surveyors who after 180 years can not read step by step instructions, I can now see why some States went to recording the corner information.
" I had to read the manual in College..." Really? That provided you with information about how to work in the PLSS if you are a Federal Surveyor surveying unsurveyed lands, and about 1% of what you need to know about surveying in the PLSS as a private surveyor. Anyone who thinks that working in the PLSS is simple doesn't have the faintest concept what can be involved. Please don't come here to survey.
Scott Ellis, post: 440798, member: 7154 wrote: I agree on the Federal Lands following the manual, however are most City and County requirements to follow the manual or tie into a section corner?
No. Not in my somewhat narrow experience.
Local agencies want ties to section corners for GIS mapping purposes.
State case law speaks to retracement principles relating to dependent portions of aliquot descriptions.
Tom Adams, post: 440790, member: 7285 wrote: You might need an introduction to the Texas calendar. I believe it is changed and re-applied throughout time. Situations where someone want's their child born the day after April 2, to have been born on, say, March 8, will go and record a document that the former April 3 is now March 8. Or someone is trying to record their deed and they want it to have been recorded before another deed for the same property; so they change the date of their recording to 4 mos. earlier. etc.
Now, today (whatever day this is) in order to get a correct calendar of the days, months and years, you have to research each day and find out exactly the chain of changed dates to get exactly what today's date is and, perhaps the whole year's calendar. It's extremely complicated but the texas timekeepers and annual calendar-makers are some of the smartest calendar-makers in the world.
I see you are still trying to gasp at nothing. Does it bother you that part of Colorado used to be Texas?
Jim in AZ, post: 440800, member: 249 wrote: " I had to read the manual in College..." Really? That provided you with information about how to work in the PLSS if you are a Federal Surveyor surveying unsurveyed lands, and about 1% of what you need to know about surveying in the PLSS as a private surveyor. Anyone who thinks that working in the PLSS is simple doesn't have the faintest concept what can be involved. Please don't come here to survey.
I spend a summer after High School working on a survey crew in Louisiana finding those section corners was easy. Find one jump in the truck reset the odometer and drive to the next look location, find that one and repeat.
Jim you can not even fill out an Elevation Certificate without asking a flood plain administrator for help, How often do you ask the County Surveyor for help? You are the last person I would want to retract survey work after.
Scott Ellis, post: 440804, member: 7154 wrote: I see you are still trying to gasp at nothing.
**sigh** sorry, I'm not going to explain my joke.
Does it bother you that part of Colorado used to be Texas?
As a matter of fact I live just South of the Arkansas river in what used to be Texas (when Texas was big). Since then Texas has shrunk and the egos have stayed the same.;)
Tom Adams, post: 440815, member: 7285 wrote: **sigh** sorry, I'm not going to explain my joke.
As a matter of fact I live just South of the Arkansas river in what used to be Texas (when Texas was big). Since then Texas has shrunk and the egos have stayed the same.;)
Please explain the joke to me.
Well at least you picked the best place in the State of Colorado to live in.
Serious question here, for the area that used to be Texas, was any Land Grants giving in the area under Spain, Mexico, or the Republic of Texas, and if so do you have to follow the Sovereign nation land laws, or was the land never granted and it all falls in PLSS laws?
Scott Ellis, post: 440807, member: 7154 wrote: I spend a summer after High School working on a survey crew in Louisiana finding those section corners was easy. Find one jump in the truck reset the odometer and drive to the next look location, find that one and repeat.
Jim you can not even fill out an Elevation Certificate without asking a flood plain administrator for help, How often do you ask the County Surveyor for help? You are the last person I would want to retract survey work after.
"I spend a summer after High School working on a survey crew in Louisiana finding those section corners was easy. Find one jump in the truck reset the odometer and drive to the next look location, find that one and repeat."
And this is your concept of what surveying in the PLSS involves? No wonder you've posted so many moronic statements!
Regarding your EC comment I would advise you to attend a FEMA seminar where they will tell you that is exactly what you are supposed to do! Of course you have made it clear that you are smarter than everyone else on the planet and that would be beneath you.
Jim in AZ, post: 440824, member: 249 wrote: "I spend a summer after High School working on a survey crew in Louisiana finding those section corners was easy. Find one jump in the truck reset the odometer and drive to the next look location, find that one and repeat."
And this is your concept of what surveying in the PLSS involves? No wonder you've posted so many moronic statements!
Regarding your EC comment I would advise you to attend a FEMA seminar where they will tell you that is exactly what you are supposed to do! Of course you have made it clear that you are smarter than everyone else on the planet and that would be beneath you.
A summer is all I needed in the PLSS system, I have been to an Elevation Certificate continuing education class, it was very helpful and taught me how to fill out the form without having to ask the Flood Plain administrator every blank question on the form, that and the FEMA guide on how to fill out their form.
Jim I think my smarts are equal to most Surveyors, well maybe just the Surveyors who can figure out how to properly do an Elevation Certificate on their own.
Scott Ellis, post: 440807, member: 7154 wrote: .... finding those section corners was easy. Find one jump in the truck reset the odometer and drive to the next look location, find that one and repeat .....
I hope that's a joke. Finding the intersection of roads where a section corner should be is usually not much problem. That was especially true in Oklahoma, but not so much in the PNW were roads often follow geography rather than section lines. Finding the corner within that intersection is, very often, a much different matter. Sometimes the problem is that you find more than one good candidate.
Scott Ellis, post: 440819, member: 7154 wrote: Please explain the joke to me.
Well at least you picked the best place in the State of Colorado to live in.
Serious question here, for the area that used to be Texas, was any Land Grants giving in the area under Spain, Mexico, or the Republic of Texas, and if so do you have to follow the Sovereign nation land laws, or was the land never granted and it all falls in PLSS laws?
There are Spanish and Mexican Land Grants here in Colorado. The boundaries remain the same, and the PLSS system is laid out and the section/township lines truncate at the senior grants. I haven't heard of any "Republic of Texas" land grants up here, but maybe someone else can chime in.
I have surveyed in a Spanish Land grant area and have surveyed in a "Townsite" that was created by metes-and-bounds prior to the PLSS system coming through. Same thing in that the PLSS sections just ended at the exterior townsite lines (ie: there is no N-1/4 Cor of Section 8 because it would land inside the townsite. A funny thing I noticed was that private surveyors came in later and set the theoretical section corners where they should have landed had there been no townsite there.
Here is a map of some mexican land grants I found on the web:
Mark Mayer, post: 440829, member: 424 wrote: I hope that's a joke. Finding the intersection of roads where a section corner should be is usually not much problem. That was especially true in Oklahoma, but not so much in the PNW were roads often follow geography rather than section lines. Finding the corner within that intersection is, very often, a much different matter. Sometimes the problem is that you find more than one good candidate.
I've known surveyors who drive up to where a corner should be and the first shiny piece of metal (or the biggest shiny piece of metal) ends their search. "I found it". Not sure anyone found an original monument that way. Probably just those who take short cuts and do inferior work. (p.s. don't tell anyone, but I think that a certain Mr. Ellis and a certain Mr. McM like to tease and watch other's hackles stand up. (I hope I used "certain" correctly.))
Tom Adams, post: 440830, member: 7285 wrote: There are Spanish and Mexican Land Grants here in Colorado. The boundaries remain the same, and the PLSS system is laid out and the section/township lines truncate at the senior grants. I haven't heard of any "Republic of Texas" land grants up here, but maybe someone else can chime in.
I have surveyed in a Spanish Land grant area and have surveyed in a "Townsite" that was created by metes-and-bounds prior to the PLSS system coming through. Same thing in that the PLSS sections just ended at the exterior townsite lines (ie: there is no N-1/4 Cor of Section 8 because it would land inside the townsite. A funny thing I noticed was that private surveyors came in later and set the theoretical section corners where they should have landed had there been no townsite there.
Here is a map of some mexican land grants I found on the web:
That is a nice map, I never knew there was a Rio Grande river north of Texas. Is there a lot of Spanish names in that area, such as Towns, rivers, streets?
Scott Ellis, post: 440804, member: 7154 wrote: I see you are still trying to gasp at nothing. Does it bother you that part of Colorado used to be Texas?
Like they say...You can pick your friends, but not your relatives.
😉
Scott Ellis, post: 440835, member: 7154 wrote: That is a nice map, I never knew there was a Rio Grande river north of Texas. Is there a lot of Spanish names in that area, such as Towns, rivers, streets?
The Rio Grande starts in Colorado (meaning "red" in Spanish) and goes through New Mexico before becoming the Mexico border. Yes, a lot of Spanish names in this area (and in a lot of Colorado)
Tom Adams, post: 440840, member: 7285 wrote: The Rio Grande starts in Colorado (meaning "red" in Spanish) and goes through New Mexico before becoming the Mexico border. Yes, a lot of Spanish names in this area (and in a lot of Colorado)
That's right I used to know that, for some reason I just think it runs West to East.
Scott Ellis, post: 440842, member: 7154 wrote: for some reason I just think it runs West to East.
That's because upstream of El Paso its JADPLR (Just another D@mn Public Lands River)
James Fleming, post: 440845, member: 136 wrote: That's because upstream of El Paso its JADPLR (Just another D@mn Public Lands River)
That could be the 2nd reason, the 1st I blame on a Navy buddy when we were in San Diego he lets go see the Rio Grande, 20 years ago I must have been smart because I said there is no Rio Grande in California, but now because of him......
Conrad, post: 440648, member: 6642 wrote: Thanks very much for all the responses.
It seems to me that IF a PLSS area was adequately monumented, and competently measured then subsequent retracement or subdivision would have been money for jam. Sounds nice in theory.
What happened in most of PLSSia is that as many section corners as possible ended up in the middle of public roads where they were promptly considered to be unfindable except in Nebraska where Jerry Penry surveys. The wiley Canadians were smart enough in the later generations of the Dominion Land Survey System to place the tract corners at the EDGES of the roads (Canadian: "road allowances") with the land in the roads remaining vested in HRH QEII or her successors in sovereignty over former British North America such as former Canadian PM Jacques Poutine.
