Well, the "New GPS" bug has bit me

Is this outfit out of Florida?

Maybe almost a year ago I was in the market for some new equipment and all the "word" on Javad had me interested. I FINALLY found a dealer for my area. I could not get anybody to return my calls. Over 14 days later I finally got an email reply, with no more info than I could get off the web site.

Our new set of GR5's works flawlessly.

Nate,

I saw that same ad on Ebay and wondered if it was legit too.

He is not an authorized dealer of any manufacturer from the looks of his website.

It appears his business is servicing instruments and buying/selling used instruments. If he does not sell new instruments as a dealer/distributor with a manufacturer he would not have direct access to their support either. I am not saying he isn't knowledgeable and couldn't directly support you, but I would be extra cautious.

You truly get what you pay for in many situations. I would much rather pay list price and receive the support I need, than getting a "good deal" that everyone chases and get sub-par support from my local dealer.

I have bought small items from him (used data collectors). I actually sold him an old Topcon Hiper lite system. I'm not sure if he is an 'authorized dealer' or not, but his check cleared when he bought our GPS. Also, once I had a problem with a data collector I ordered from him and he took it back and gave me another one. I would buy from him again.

Thanks for the replies. Getting what I want goes over the 20k mark, on the Javad web site. There were units for folks that were beta testers, and feedback champions. I'd LOVE to be one of those. To get the shape the software, and make it FLY!

I am not sure how much support I really need.

I bought my last system, with no support. Well, I got the data collector from hayes, and their support was top knotch.

But, I still have my weak areas.

N

I've bought minor supplies from him, and I'd buy again. On eBay, there's a guarantee with the purchase. If not as described, you can return it for a full refund. I have encountered scams on eBay, but I'm guessing this is not one.

I don't have it in front of me, but I think the $8,640 was a price advertised by Javad some months ago. Not sure if it was only for PLS customers, or not. But, going to Javad's site now, I see that the base price is listed at $12,990.

You might give Javad a call to see about whether you can still get the $8,640 pricing. I'm tempted at that price too!

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Looked at an old issue of American Surveyor (2013 Vol 10 No 10) and see that the $8,640 was an advertised price.

My feeling, is that this product will need more support, (especially as it develops) and software is updated. So, Support may be quite important.

I'm friends with Shawn Billings.

In fact, Shawn came to Hot Springs, and showed it off for me.

I'd like to order 2 LS units! But, we gotta find some dollars!!

N

Yes, Florida.

I am prone to treat this just like a survey. Calc it from EVERY point of view, before buying.

N

Nate,

I was very impressed with Shawn's recent article on the LS. I really like what Javad is doing, and the LS looks like a great offering. At this point, I don't own a Javad GNSS receiver, but am using a pair of Topcon Hiper Pro for the moment. But I did buy one of Javad's 35 Watt UHF radios and have a license to use it. If I had money to invest in GNSS equipment, Javad would be at the top of my list.

That said, I haven't gotten enough use out of my existing GNSS equipment to justify further investment at this time. I've gotten bad fixes in the woods using the Hiper Pro receivers, and am reluctant to use them for control points where there isn't clear open sky above. Despite the guarantee that Javad is offering, I think even with the LS unit, there will be inherent problems with trying to get a good precise fix under tree canopy.

So, in my mind, it's a great tool for open sites, but would typically be used in conjunction with total station. Would not replace total station.

Al

As far as I can tell, the best way to buy Javad equipment is directly from Javad. My experience with Javad support reps, and Javad himself, has been excellent.

That said, I wasn't aware of it until now, but Javad has a growing dealer network. In the USA, only four dealers exist:

GPS Equipment Outfitters (CA)
Klein Survey Systems, Inc. (NE)
Midwest Surveying Instruments, Inc. (IL)
RES Land Surveys, Inc. (AZ)

Nate. I went straight to Javad and they have been nothing but great. Excellent service. Javad has just set me up with broadcasting with my internal cell modems instead of using my internal UHF radios in the field and that was a huge leap forward for my business. I have a permanent base (Delta) at my home town area and now I get the same 20+ mile range anywhere I go away from my local stomping grounds using the Triumph-1 to Triumph-1. Couldn't have done it without the support from Javad.

Funny thing when I was going over the steps they emailed me. I misspelled a string code so I called Javad and told them I was having problems and couldn't figure out what went wrong. While I'm on the phone I was trying to describe what the receiver was doing and they where already logged into my gps and resetting what I screwed up. Great people!

"Our new set of GR5's works flawlessly."

So do ours...

GPS does not work in heavy tree canopy. I don't care what any manufacturer claims, GPS does not work in heavy tree canopy.

The thing that sets the LS apart regarding work in canopy and challenging environments is the use of the six RTK engines and a process they came up with for verifying fixes.

We all know (or should know) that if you are working in difficult places, with multipath and obstructions, that we should check the fix we used to collect a point with a redundant fix. So we reset the engine or dump the antenna and shoot the point a second time. If the two agree with each other, we figure we have a reliable fix. Now, different surveyors modify this approach, raise the antenna to change the multipath, move away from the point and tape to it, etc. But the idea is the same, repeat the fix and compare.

The LS repeats the fix as many times as you like and compares them all. In tough environments, even the LS can get a bad fix. However, repeating the fix and comparing them to each other will root out the bad ones. The more iterations, the more confidence you have. Of course, in tough environments, it takes time to get each fix, so it comes at a cost. Professional discretion will dictate what the right balance is between how many verified fixes are necessary and the amount of time required to obtain them.

Most surveyors I've talked with about Javad's new software seem most attracted to this one feature. "Game changer" gets thrown around a lot, and I'm probably guilty of this myself. However, I believe other manufacturers will have to be able to address this functionality in one way or another. They may not use the same approach Javad has taken, but they will have to offer something that gives the user more confidence that he has a good fix than what is currently on display.

To suggest that precision GNSS doesn't work under canopy ignores the fact that users are pushing RTK under trees every day, sometimes foolishly so. What verify RTK does is, hopefully, take some of the foolishness out of it and allow conscientious surveyors to safely squeeze more out of their investment than they otherwise would feel comfortably doing.

I agree, except that "heavy" is subjective. There's no way, that I'm aware of, to quantify "heavy". I will say that pine trees seem to be the most difficult canopy to work under. That I live and work in the "Piney Woods" of East Texas provides me with almost daily, acute awareness of this.

I am amazed at what can be done under deciduous canopy though.

Regarding manufacturers claims, any surveyor having a demo or evaluating equipment should take the receivers in difficult places and (with a fixed solution) locate points. They should then return to those places and locate them again. That the receiver gets a "fixed" solution in a difficult place is not enough. It should be repeated to show that the fix was actually good.

I agree. I've gotten good, verified fixes in some pretty bad areas, but I've also seen receivers tell me my vertical was good when it was really over a foot off. As you said, you have to check and verify.

I had a similar experience with Javad's support staff when I purchased the 35 watt UHF radio. Specifically, with Michael Glutting. He, on a Sunday (just after I got the equipment, and just before needing to use the equipment on Monday) patiently walked me through the configuration of the radio in SurvCE, explaining all the way what was going on. It was a great support experience.