I'm a surveyor. Regardless of all the highly technical explanations that some have worked so hard to devise to convince the world that surveying just doesn't properly describe all the activities and technologies that geomatics does, when you cut through the BS, it all comes down to making measurements and collecting data, analyzing the data, and then depicting the results of one's analysis in some manner of mapping product or report. It all sounds like surveying with nifty new technological magic gizmos to do the same things surveyors have always been known for doing.
The term geomatics was created for nothing more than a marketing strategy for the big firms that adopted the newest tech first to differentiate themselves from those who were doing smaller scale boundary, topo, and construction staking, and then quickly adopted by the colleges and universities to attract new students. The colleges didn't really overhaul their programs to adapt to a new profession. They first and foremost wanted to get away from what they considered to be the stodgy term of "surveying" in favor of embracing the new, exciting "geomatics". Most have incorporated new technologies (GPS, scanning, GIS) into their programs now, with some having a GIS specialty option.
So? It's still all surveying. With GIS, we can do a lot more with our maps, but it still comes down to building a reliable map to serve various purposes. Scanning and GPS are still just measuring techniques.
Surveying didn't change to another name when the EDM was introduced, or when Doppler or GPS gained widespread use. CAD revolutionized the way we create drawings, make calculations, and even the utility or versatility of what we could do with our data and how we can present it. None of this new technology caused us to invent some silly new name or to become embarrassed by the old name.
I'm not one who thinks that anything that's not boundary or topo is not surveying. Although boundary is the area of practice I enjoy most and have chosen to concentrate on, I believe that the definition of what is surveying is and should be as broad, or nearly so as the definition of what is engineering. I have believed for some time and still hope to see within my career the advent of specialty licensing within surveying. something like a general surveying license that permits practice in a fairly wide range of basic survey activities, but with additional certifications or another level of licensing for a few different specialties. Much like a civil engineer can get a certification or another level of licensing as a traffic engineer or a structural engineer, a general practice surveyor can get an additional certification for certain types of boundary surveying, for GIS management/design, for underground surveying, for high rise and heavy construction (dams, large bridges), or for precise machine placement, etc.
Technology has opened the door wider. You can place it under what you call the broader umbrella of "geomatics". But when you condense it down to what the tasks are, in every case, it's still all still Surveying.
My understanding is that the term geomatics was coined by a Canadian photogrammetrist in the early 80's as an umbrella term to cover surveying and geospatial sciences that was English/French neutral to use in a bilingual country.
Once it was adopted in Canada it spread academically because Canada has a number of internationally respected post graduate programs in the geomagical sciences. I never really saw it much in private industry on the east coast until the early 2000's.
You can call me whatever you want as long as you don't call me late for dinner.
Measurement is part of what we do. If we are so inclined we can include some very advanced techniques and produce some very precise products. It's up to us if we want to provide these services. I do and I refuse to apologize for it. Learning to provide deformation monitoring, precise control networks and the like did not require me to empty my brain of boundary law knowledge. I do boundary surveying as well and I'm good at it.
Why we insist in demeaning those who try a different survey market than ourselves is beyond me. I respect people who are good at what they do and treat clients right. While boundary surveying is the core of our license, I feel no threat from GIS techs or construction surveyors. The false enmity created by some is quite ridiculous. ...
I feel like a magician sometimes.
Like this one time my former client calls me up and says, "That old crankity-crank next door yanked my point out!"
I show up with my magic wand and turn blame-ful into shameful.
"No no ma'am. Here's your pin right here where I left it. Guess he's not such a crankity crank after all."
Like magic.
[admin note: leave politics out of it] What is the threat that is occurring here? Is it a bunch of complaining without any real knowledge of what you are complaining about?
If your reputation has fizzled it is your own doing or you are just paranoid. Surveyors seem to me to be largely uneducated and unwilling to explore education. You live in the past and while I understand that history is a large part of surveying, I donÛªt want to live there.
Education is a life-long process. I am taking classes in GIS and have a copy of ArcMAP software for the class. There are many aspects of GIS that can be useful to Land Surveyors. You need to stop being stubbornly against progress. It is not magic and all the name calling and attempts to belittle GIS just shows how ignorant you are.
Education will cure ignorance. Surveyors have warned me against every new technology that has evolved throughout my career. Data loggers, CAD systems, computer programs, electronic distance meters, global positioning systemsÛ? All were voodoo at one time or another. I used to liken the behavior of people that were too conservative to accept or adopt changes to a swimmer that refuses to enter the water until he or she knows how to swim.
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A few years ago our State Board and licensed surveyors all got together and decided whether we should allow (at that time) photogrammetrists to enter in to our realm of licensure. It wasn't received very well, on either side. But as long as someone can meet the criteria for licensure, let them become land surveyors.
Within the framework of our current professional status, professional surveyors are still the only ones that make professional (insert public) determinations as to measurements. The courts still back us up. And as long as we are the determining factor for measurements that have to do with, say, public monies paying for various "measurements" like excavation quantities, we will retain our professionalism. Sure, others can map or layout cadastral maps or determine surface quantities..or any other of the fantastic things that fall under 'geomatics'. And there is some pretty slick technology out there to help us do that.
Rather than "take our toys and go home" I, for one, would like to take the road that was blazed for us by professional engineers (bless their hearts..). Just because over the last twenty years software has been developed that can actually take a huge topo surface file and cut it up into P&P sheets with a highway and drainage design engineered to any number of variable criteria DOES NOT mean that a professional engineer doesn't need to be of record on the project. And how many PEs actually perform this work themselves? While there are lots of design engineers that do their own work, most have staff to perform the dirty work. I can remember a time when the old PEs had simply no earthly idea how you could take an ascii file and get it into a cad file and produce a set of prints..but they maintained their supervisory status.
The way I see it...all geomaticians that are not licensed are merely staff. All y'alls that can screw with all that new fancy stuff, but get it done and get it on my desk....I still need to review and sign it.
I read Wendell's article as a recognition that the established surveying publications are reaching out to the broader aspects of the profession and by doing so, address the interests of those engaged in the more traditional roles of the surveyor less, and that's why he started RPLS News.
I didn't see anything denigrating about those who provide services in those broader roles. I didn't read any call to arms against an imagined enemy army of geomawhoozers. So I'm a bit lost as to where this talk about apologizing for surveying that isn't boundary surveying, or about making enemies is coming from.
Bionicman, no need to apologize for anything. No one said you need to confine yourself to only one area of expertise. Your diversity of services is undoubtedly a very positive thing for your business. It's still surveying.
Mattharnett, from this point you'll be known as "The Amazing GeoMatticalHarnett". I'm glad you are using your geomagical powers to serve others.
Not my real name, I don't often make a post that speaks negatively to a person's character, but what kind of a stupid jackass comment was that? How is this even remotely a political issue. In trying to color those who don't share your politics as being wholly myopic and unknowing in all aspects of life, you do much more to display your own colossal level of ignorance. It must be a miserable existence to view everything in life through the lens of politics. No wonder you don't post with your real name. A person with the character to post with their identity known would (or should) be ashamed of such drivel.
Note to Wendell: I understand if you feel you need to delete this post. I just ask that if you do, that you delete not my real name's post as well.
eapls, don't go chasing away "not my real name". We might have a question that we need someone of higher intelligence to answer. We've already chased away most of our engineers. If we're going to live in the past, maybe we can learn from it.
Nowhere did I denigrate other related services such as GIS, etc.
I'm simply making a point that land surveying seems to be getting folded in somewhere it doesn't necessarily want or need to be. Can surveyors and GIS folks work together? Of course! But don't lump us into the same fold -- land surveying is a very distinct profession that is much different from other related services. For one, we are required to be licensed and, in some states, continue our education in order to renew those licenses. We are a different animal (and proud of it).
