Using Reflectorless Leica Station (1200)

The TPS1200 with an R100 RL EDM means that the maximum range for the reflectorless was spec'd at 100 meters (300 ft). Reflectorless EDM 's work on either phase (just like IR used with a prism) or time of flight. There is also a spot size element that you need to know from each manufacturer. Leica reflectorless uses both phase and time of flight to compare each result to see if the answers reported are with in the tolerances published. The return of the relectorless beam also is affected by selectivity of the material where the beam is hitting, lighting conditions and also the angle of incidence where the beam is hitting a target. Reflectorless EDM's have never been just a "point at anything and shoot" device. Although they are usually sold in that tone. The specifications on the old TPS1200 R100 you have is:

Range PinPoint R100
D E F
Kodak Gray Card, 90% reflective: 140 m (460 ft) 170 m (560 ft) > 170 m (> 560 ft)
Kodak Gray Card, 18% reflective: 70 m (230 ft) 100 m (330 ft) > 100 m (> 330 ft)

Atmospheric conditions:

D: Object in strong sunlight, severe heat shimmer
E: Object in shade, or sky overcast
F: Underground, night and twilight

The technology is getting better and better. You absolutely need to concentrate on spot size and not maximum range when judging who has the best reflectorless. Shoot through a 0.10 diameter hole on a piece of paper at about 150 ft next to a wall. See if the instrument measures to the face of the paper of the wall. There are only two brands out there that will pass this text. Leica is one of them and stay way from anything painted yellow.

!!!!!!!
Also, I worked for Leica and there was never and upgrade path for the relectorless EDM. In your model the RL board is seperate from the IR board (so two boards total). I can verify if there is some change in the possibility of an upgrade to an R300. I would hold off on paying for a bogus upgrade until this can be confirmed with a Leica Service Center and not just a dealer's repair shop.

You can email

[email protected] and get a verification on the reflectorless upgrade.

Leica is one of them and stay way from anything painted yellow.
>

that's the difference between phase shift laser(leica) and pulse laser(others), right?

This upgrade would be by a Leica company shop. My question is: Is this still "old technology" and not worth bothering to upgrade. The new 1200+ seems to say it uses a different method of reflectorless measurement. Perhaps my gun should be left as is but if users of the R300 range find it to work then I would like to upgarde. I use the gun to make topo maps and would like to be able to shoot neighboring houses, poles, and other objects that I prefer to not to enter onto the property.

> You absolutely need to concentrate on spot size and not maximum range when judging who has the best reflectorless.

I would say it depends on your applications, work sites and required accuracy. Leica is great but in a quarry, I prefer to use a light weight Topcon. Even for mentioned topo stuff, I would suspect any gun would do the job fine. The power pole that you are shooting at 95 metres, do you really care about the footprint of the signal where it hits?

Manufacturers are in the business of selling. They will always figure out a way to promote their equipment is the best by choosing tests to back up claims. Let's use this test, it makes us shine. Yesterday, I was reading two studies about two different brand of tripods. Each study sponsored by each manufacturer. First study basically said: "we are the best, the other is good but not as good"; second study basically said: "we are the best, the other is good but not as good".

My friend is a doctor. A bird doctor. One time she was laughing, she said "hey Georges, I applied two different statistical methods on my data set and came with opposite results".

About your question, I would not bother upgrading the 1200 to 300 specs. The gun is two generations back, I'd leave the hardware as is. There's more risks of harm than good I think for the remainder of the life of the equipment.

the 1200+ combined the IR and RL into one board, maybe even one emitter ... keeps the RL much better aligned, now a shop adjustment rather than a user adjustment.

Agree with above, rather than upgrade parts in an instrument that has about 2 years of support left, start saving for your next Leica.

I've used Leica's reflectorless with great results. Somewhere on Leica's website they have the manual for the 1200 series that details the beams divergence, If you are interested in the area of capture.
You're likely to introduce more error in calculating the semi-diameter or center of the object than what RL will report.

> rather than upgrade parts in an instrument that has about 2 years of support left, start saving for your next Leica.

With the similarities between the 1200 and the 1200+, I hope customers can plan/get more than another 2 years of support on the 1200. I know that for the GPS900, its successor the CS09 is very similar, which is good news for support.

> the 1200+ combined the IR and RL into one board, maybe even one emitter ... keeps the RL much better aligned, now a shop adjustment rather than a user adjustment.
>
> Agree with above, rather than upgrade parts in an instrument that has about 2 years of support left, start saving for your next Leica.

half bubble,

you are indeed correct, it is one board now, rather than two. my understanding is that the telescope on the 1200 series non-plus instruments is just a glorified 1100 telescope.

as regards the alignment, you make sure to keep an eye on your local service guys work. whenever you get an instruemnt back go and test the laser at about 50m and make sure it is not more than a few mm off. i have had some dodgy laser alignments come back to me after a service. sent them right back for a re-alignment. when in alignment the accuracy of these things is blistering.

can confirm other comments as regards yellow instrument reflectorless inaccuracy. not good.

just a little tip for the leica users if you don't use it already. if you are trying to snag reflectorless shots on small or dodgy or moving things, the top leaves on a tree to get it's height for example, use reflectorless in TRACKING mode. it is much less fussy about returning a distance. be careful for this reason though.

hello septicguy,

we have the 1200 plus series in R400 and R1000 guise. i can vouch that the R1000 is good to 1000m only under the most favourable conditions, but i have snagged a wooden power pole 1000m away on an overcast afternoon. i would say useful range is around 400m in normal conditions to most surfaces. this allows us to plot positions of trees and buildings in rural settings at good distances. the R400 is useful to about 150m in same conditions. only good for houses and trees in close proximity to the survey like near, urban, streetscape situations.

leica changed the way they advertise their reflectorless range for the plus series. for your series (R100 & R300) it is based on useful distances to an 18% reflective card, whereas the plus series is based on distances to a 90% reflective card. under the new advertising convention the old R100 and R300 could be (very roughly) called the R280 and R700. in my opinion, if you are not dropping big money on the new board to make it an R300, and intend on keeping the instrument for a while, then i would consider it a worthwhile upgrade.

you will find more situations you will use the relectorless capability when your range improves. recommended.:good:

I have a couple of 1200's with R300 lasers. On several occasions I have gotten a return of over 1400 feet from a nice white FAA just for the fun of it. We have used successfully to survey rock faces from a safe spot hundreds of feet away. We routinely use it to tie poles, building corners and cell towers without really thinking about our proximity.

Conrad is correct in his thinking, if you plan on keeping the instrument it does nor really matter where it is in the marketing cycle. Pull the trigger if you think the extra distance is worth it.

Just my $0.05 worth

John

P.s Why don't keyboards have a cent key anymore?

> just a little tip for the leica users if you don't use it already. if you are trying to snag reflectorless shots on small or dodgy or moving things, the top leaves on a tree to get it's height for example, use reflectorless in TRACKING mode. it is much less fussy about returning a distance. be careful for this reason though.

neat tip, thanks! I have never once thought of using the RL in tracking mode for anything.

I have been experimenting with tracking in IR mode, with auto points set to "Stop&Go" and taking a shot anytime I stop for 6 seconds ... If I get Zen enough with it I will be able to shoot a long string of topo shots without pushing any buttons. Maybe not always
practical but soon to be another trick in the bag.

I use a 1200 with the 300 laser and have gotten good results as well, I like to think the extra range helps me get better returns on closer poor reflective surfaces, that is the main reason I bought the 1200 and stop using my 1100. I would recommend that you upgrade to the 300. By the way at my stage in life I am more interested in where I am in the marketing cycle instead of my equipment. I have been thinking about a 1200+ but think my 1200 will out last me.

Is this upgrade "approved" by the manufacturer or is it something that "we at the shop can do".

What's involved in the upgrade?

half buble, definitely get on to auto record. 6 seconds sounds a bit long though. because you have to specify what constitues stop, like movement under 0.05m for example, it is pretty foolproof. as long as you always ground the pole the worst you will end up with is extra surface shots.

6 seconds was a guess of how long it might take to steady a hand held plumb bob under a glass.

I was hoping to use the stop&go to shoot setup points (backsights, resections)too, but stop&go lives in the auto points menu and isn't available in Setup. Thinking about a way around this that doesn't slow things down too much.

Using Reflectorless Leica 1105LR

I am a solo guy, and I have the Leica 1105 Long Range, and I really like it. I can get shots out to a little over 500 feet to light, reflective surfaces perpendicular to the laser beam. I can get a shot on a black power pole only out to about 175 feet or so. My instrument is great for lot surveys and locating building corners and improvements from a few setups and short shots. It beats the socks off going into a fenced in back yard with a yapping mutt wanting to chew my leg off! :pissed:

I have been able to get a distance on roadway centerline reflectors out to a quarter mile away. For general up-close topo location work, they work great. I use regular EDM for point-to-point traverse, then switch to reflectorless to get my topo shots along boundary lines. White fence post tops return a distance out to about 450 feet depending on the reflectivity or newness of the paint. Faded light-colored wooden fence posts with a smooth surface can be measured up to about 250 feet. Cutting line late in the evening or in dark woods on an overcast day with the red laser turned on will cause a brilliant red beam to "shine" through the woods, hitting every obstruction between the instrument and the target. When setting marks up close, just turn your angle, and "walk" the distance in on smooth ground. A red spot marks the place to fine-tune a point.

Caution: Do a reality check (gut feeling) on your shots - if that object looks to be further away than the distance measured, look for an obstruction between your instrument and the object being measured to by running the focus in and out.

I like the comment on red laser tracking mode for slightly moving targets. I will try that next time out in the field.:-)

¢

A "workaround" - Microsoft Word, insert-symbol-(find it)-copy and paste.

And, I am still looking for the "ANY" key on my keyboard when I want to continue....:-D