Aloha, the recent discussions about practicing without license got my attention. Just waited for the dust to settle before posting my thoughts.
Did not meant to question many of the thoughts expressed just wanted to clarify. Last thing I want to do is "bite that hands that fed me" on this site 🙂 I begin to question if I am doing the right thing or not? Am I?
Here are what I have done…couple of the items were considered inappropriate for homeowners to do per the discussion that happen in the past several day.
1. Hire a PLS and he correctly set all the corners. Spent close to 20K! (counting fees paid to PLS that failed to deliver what he was hired to do :-()
2. No curves on the boundary line that we share with neighbors…everything is a straight line.
3. Had my PLS set few POL for the longest line.
4. I have a total station and use COGO—it was suggested this could be a no no.
5. I’ve installed fence lines with offsets from actual boundary line so that fences are within our property using my own equipment—this was also pointed out to be a no no. I think anyone should be able to do this by measuring out from the pipes set by a PLS—my thought.
6. Doing my own control network and topo within the property.
It seems a bit unfair that we can't even do these sort of simple things after having the corners professionally set. While a handful of the forum members thought it is okay for homeowner to do few things but overwhelming number of us here are against it.
As a non PLS I naturally liked what Uncle Paden eloquently wrote…
"If the corners you are going to be using have a definitive pedigree; as in identifying caps or tags AND being referenced to a survey of record or in the possession of the property owner, there would be nothing wrong with what you've described.
If the property owner either had the corners set or found by a proper survey you are doing nothing but layman's work, like erecting a fence, there would be no problem. The infraction being the determination of each end of the line. If you are the one to 'discover' each end point you are extending a level of professionalism and liability that illegally exceeds your capabilities.” —Uncle Paden.
https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=311228
https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=311180
https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=311121
Always with Aloha!
As you can see from those discussions, the answer may vary by jurisdiction, and there is a wide range of opinion even within a jurisdiction.
In the end, it is all about how much risk you are taking on. You have done several things to minimize (nearly eliminate) risk.
1) Hired a pro to mark the corners,
2) measured carefully with respect to his corners and plat,
3) only worked on your own group's property so it is only about you and your adjoiners and not some third party and their neighbors,
and 4) set the fence inside.
I personally don't see that you have taken on any significant risk.
Yswami-
Ruminate over:
"If you think a professional is expensive, try hiring an amateur"
Derek
if its on your own property most states allow this. If you are offering to do this for others..thats where the slope begins...also it's not using COGO that is the problem, it is using cogo and trying to set points on the property line. again most states allow homeowners to do this themselves, but check with the board in the aloha state.
As long as you are surveying within the bounds of your own property, there is no issue with any of the laws I'm aware of. IMHO, you've taken all the necessary steps to ensure that it is so. Were you to offer your services and expertise to your neighbors to stake boundaries other than your own, the line would be crossed so to say. State's require surveyors to be licensed to ensure a standard of competency in order to protect the public. Doesn't always work out, but that's the intent. 😉
I believe that as long as your survey activities are wholly within the boundaries of the monastery you are OK.
All of my corners have been set by and lines marked by a licensed professional surveyor... I'd like to see anyone try to tell me that I can't utilize my expertise in measurement to lay out a fence on my own property.
> I believe that as long as your survey activities are wholly within the boundaries of the monastery you are OK.
I would agree to a point. If your doing preliminary mapping to assist those managing the property or planning new construction there will be a point where a professional surveyor should be involved. That would be when an architect and/or engineer needs facilities and topographic mapping to develop actual construction plans. It is very likely those professionals will require that the information provided be certified by a professional surveyor.
Don't forget the silent majority who have not posted our opinions.
Lurker mode back on.
Yswami,
You are good to go on your property.
For any construction or drainage projects, you should review any local ordinances that may govern procedures.
A couple of things we can all agree on. We aren't the only ones that are allowed to measure. Does someone cutting a 2x4 have to call me to measure the length? Of course not.
Setting property corners is surveying and you should be licensed for this.
Now staking a fence line. Its kind of a gray area. If the property corners are there, does a surveyor need to stake the location of each fence post? Of course not. If you can see between the corners does the surveyor need to set the string line? No. If you can't see between the corners does a surveyor need to set points on line? I don't know the answer, its kind of a gray area in my opinion. Who ever does it better get it right or they are open to problems.
"It seems a bit unfair that we can't even do these sort of simple things after having the corners professionally set. While a handful of the forum members thought it is okay for homeowner to do few things but overwhelming number of us here are against it."
Hello Yswami,
With respect to your above quote, you can do any type of surveying you want to on your own land. Anyone who disagrees is not in touch with reality.
Paden's post clarifies the issue best.
Peace 🙂
>
> I personally don't see that you have taken on any significant risk.
Aloha, Bill:
That was my goal. In addition I also spoke to my neighbor before installing fence. One neighbor was happy that he don't have pay for the survey and even happier when I set the fence within our property. I learned long time ago good neighbor make life so much easier!
Thank you so much for your input.
> Yswami-
>
> Ruminate over:
>
> "If you think a professional is expensive, try hiring an amateur"
>
> Derek
Aloha, Derek:
I gave this a lot of thought in the past. Not complaining about the amount paid to my PLS. I paid him what he asked for without questioning. Because I understand what it takes to do a property survey--thanks to this forum. But I guess, I was disappointed reading that homeowners should not even be laying out fence even after a PLS finds and sets your corners.
Yes, I have very good experience hiring amateur--licensed amateur I might add;-) But I've learned my lesson. Promised myself never to hire anyone professional or otherwise without investigating via our local coconut tree wireless network 😀
Aloha,
> if its on your own property most states allow this. If you are offering to do this for others..thats where the slope begins...also it's not using COGO that is the problem, it is using cogo and trying to set points on the property line. again most states allow homeowners to do this themselves, but check with the board in the aloha state.
Aloha, Rambleon:
I don't cross our boundary line. I keep my work within the property. I will check on this with my PLS see what he says. Thank you for the suggestion.
> As long as you are surveying within the bounds of your own property, there is no issue with any of the laws I'm aware of. IMHO, you've taken all the necessary steps to ensure that it is so. Were you to offer your services and expertise to your neighbors to stake boundaries other than your own, the line would be crossed so to say. State's require surveyors to be licensed to ensure a standard of competency in order to protect the public. Doesn't always work out, but that's the intent. 😉
Aloha, Williwaw:
Thanks for the input. Nope...not going to offer my services and expertise out side of the monastery. My vows prohibits that anyway:-)
> I believe that as long as your survey activities are wholly within the boundaries of the monastery you are OK.
Thanks Norman for easing my mind as always!
:good: :good:
Aloha, Lee: I like that!
True. And the local authority may require that a PLS certify to certain things, such as the location of a structure substantial enough to require a building permit.
That would be when an architect and/or engineer needs facilities and topographic mapping to develop actual construction plans. It is very likely those professionals will require that the information provided be certified by a professional surveyor.
Aloha, Dallas:
Just recently we had a need to create drainage plan for our construction site. I know I can do the topo. However, decided to hire my PLS to do the topo for the civil engineer. It is just easier to have two professional work on the details and give me the final drawing that I can have contractors bid on.
Sometimes we just need to know where to draw the line. I was concern if I crossed the line somewhere by learning how do few things to surveyors' tool. Many comments here are reassuring if I don't cross the property line then I won't be crossing the line...no pun intended.
Aloha
