We've talked about the Point of Beginning vs the True Point of Beginning (ugh). I have in front of me a legal description that has a True Point of Beginning and a True Point of Ending. Never saw that one before.
ps The whole thing is in the wrong place by 40 feet because they didn't account for the 40' additional road dedication at the commencement. The intent is obvious, fortunately.?ÿ
I cannot envision a scenario where the easement would be adjudged as fixed in the 'mistaken' location (which I am sure you know). Have the owners pay you to fix it and slap the surveyor 40 times at the next conference. Problem solved...
I'm not sure how the True Point was first used.?ÿ My thought was this was to prevent confusion between the reference monument from whence the description commences and the point where the tract being surveyed starts, in fact.?ÿ People may have used the word beginning twice in the same description, which led to some confusion.?ÿ Commencing and beginning are generally synonymous in common usage.?ÿ The description in many cases has a preamble and then a description of the tract.?ÿ The preamble is the list of courses traversed from the Point of Commencing to the Point of Beginning.?ÿ I see no problem with adding True.
@thebionicman Not a surveyor, more like we might call an architect and engineer.
Yeah, that true/real POB is kind of a funny thing, imo.?ÿ When I was in school I remember thinking "You know, when I get out of here I'm going to change this silly convention of putting "true" in my description, as if my determination of the corner is somehow better than the previous guy(s)...".?ÿ As I was working under various licensed guys and writing descriptions though it came to bother me a little less.?ÿ I'm not sure what I would do now.?ÿ Am I going to cause a great deal of heartburn if I drop the true/real from my POB??ÿ ????
Anyway, I don't necessarily agree that commencing and beginning are synonymous though because if that were the case then why wouldn't we simply things and use the same word for both?
Ran into a case where the south line of several adjacent tracts was very confusing.?ÿ All commenced at a point several hundred feet to the south of the block of tracts, went that distance to the north, then followed the North line of Main Street west to their points of beginning.?ÿ The problem was that they were created at different times when the width of Main Street started at 40 feet, grew to 45 feet and later 80 feet. One or more of the tracts had the wrong distance from the point of beginning to the North line of Main Street.?ÿ The rear lines of all tracts were to match the rear lines of the tracts on the northern portion of the block.?ÿ That did not happen for the one's with a faulty distance listed.
?ÿ????@bstrand
WikiDiff is the ultimate authority on such things.?ÿ They disagree with your opinion. ?????ÿ
Anything starting with 'wik' is pure bullcrap. Crowdsourcing history and the truth of a matter may be comforting to the uneducated, but it will eventually be the end of inteeligent thought (and probably humankind).
Didn't mean to pull your chain.
Merely providing a different source than my own thought on the matter.?ÿ Perhaps the dictionary people are more authoritative.
Hmm, I think words that are classified as synonymous are synonymous when describing the same things.?ÿ Like you said above, first we're talking about to a reference monument and then a property corner-- 2 separate things.?ÿ I think this scenario causes commencing and beginning to fail the synonymous check.?ÿ ???? ?????ÿ
Actually, just a couple days ago I was told by a highschool student in Meridian that his school has officially approved wikipedia as a credible source.
The end is nigh.
They are both the same thing.?ÿ A monument.?ÿ You commence (begin) at a monument and then traverse to another monument.?ÿ Then you begin (commence) to traverse again, ending up on that same monument.
I was taught to use "commencing" to start the lead-in course(s), and "True Point of Beginning" (with caps) for the start of the parcel courses, and that's the way I still do it.?ÿ It's less a matter of which way is correct, and more a matter of clarity and consistent style.?ÿ However you satisfy the latter two criteria is okay with me.
When I have a commencing/true point of beginning situation I usually start the description as follows:
A tract of land in XXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXX, Washington County, Mystate described as:?ÿ Commencing at XXXXXXXXXXXX........... to the True Point of beginning of the tract surveyed (or subject tract); thence XXXXXXXXXX.............
Frequently the first course around the subject tract is on the same bearing as the last call of the preamble portion of the description.?ÿ Thus, I tend to say:?ÿ thence continuing XXXXXXXXXXXXX along said section line (block line) (right-of-way boundary line)............?ÿ Adding "continuing" helps to point out that a break has occurred for a specific reason.?ÿ That being to designate a Point of Beginning that is unique to the description for the tract surveyed.
I have yet to encounter a case that justified either TRUE or FALSE POB
Remember a description once that began:?ÿ Beginning at a corner post near the south quarter corner of Section 14.?ÿ It turned out the corner and the corner post were over 30 feet from each other.
I knew I was in trouble as I could tell the corner post had been there no more than six months and the description had been written 30-some years earlier.?ÿ THAT'S A FALSE POB.
The whole thing is in the wrong place by 40 fee
When performing the boundary survey(s) for what is now Palm Coast we ran across a Section that the east half of which was owned by an individual. He had split the NE1/4 into 4 parts (aliquot descriptions) for whatever reason. No problems with anything until the preamble of the four descriptions which had everything in Township 21 South when it should have been Township 12 South. More of a pain to fix than any trouble it caused. ?????ÿ
I've grown to appreciate North Carolina's requirement that all surveys be tied to a benchmark if there's a benchmark within 2000' of the subject parcel.?ÿ Slowly but surely, descriptions include the observed?ÿ NCSPCS coordinates of the North Carolina Geodetic Survey benchmark and the coordinates of the POB.?ÿ It's an enormous time saver.?ÿ If there's no BM nearby, I've been known to tie to a CORS station...gasp, shock, horror of all horrors!
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In looking up "Commencement" there is a lot about the legal phrase?ÿ ?ÿ"Coming into force".?ÿ ?ÿ Perhaps that has something to do with the historical use of the phrase in legal descriptions??ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿWhen you have multiple descriptions in an area that all use the same "point of commencement" it sure makes it easier to see how they all fit together.?ÿ ?ÿ If everybody just described the tract boundary with no frame of reference to a POC, I'd think there would be a lot more confusion.?ÿ ?ÿ
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Around here, many descriptions actually "commence" at the Lighthouse at the end of the island, then have 20 calls to get to a simple parcel 1000 feet away.?ÿ?ÿ
Adding "true" to the POB seems a little extra to me too, for sure.?ÿ?ÿ
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