Trimble S6 setup issues

Aloha, Emetz:
I am no expert...;-) I vaguely remember something similar happened to me. in my case it was prism profile in my DC. I have three different prime and the gun was using the BS prism setting for FS shot.

Yours issue could be totally something else...

Aloha
>
> My question is if I’m getting so much vertical error on the setup why when I stake back to known points shot on the first setup are my elevations matching?
>
> With shorter FS to BS distances I still have vertical setup error just not so extreme. Also in those cases staking to a known point shot from both setups generates the same elevation.
>

how good is your data between the inst point and the BS?

> Need a little help figuring out this problem.
>
> The scenario
>
> 1. S6 with BS approximately 800 feet away.

How was your control set? 0.05-0.07 sounds like RTN/RTK.

Bad backsight HI for 2nd setup?

> > Need a little help figuring out this problem.
> >
> > The scenario
> >
> > 1. S6 with BS approximately 800 feet away.
>
>
> How was your control set? 0.05-0.07 sounds like RTN/RTK.

Control is set as I move along the street.

I like to shoot the FS point with my Trimble 360 prism on a fixed height rod, then move up. Using a couple of check shots from the new setup to compare to the old.

I agree the .05-.07 is crazy high I feel like I have an issue with a setting somewhere. I've gone through and double checked prism setups in the data collector. Everything seems fine there. Not sure where else to look.

> Bad backsight HI for 2nd setup?

I've thought that, I've tried multiple people reading the height and adjusting for tape slope with no luck. I should also say this isn't a one time deal, that last couple of topos I've run into it.

>
> Control is set as I move along the street.
>

How were the OS and BS 800' apart set? Are they apart of a longer, open traverse or are they the only points on the site?

How were they established (assumed, RTK, etc.)?

You could check with a differential loop.

I should probably run a test using just my 360 mult track prism as the FS and BS and see if the vertical error comes down. If that's the case then it has to be my prisms setting in the collector. I always ruled that out because the horizontal error is always acceptable and I just figured if the prism had the incorrect settings then both horizontal and vertical would show as bad.

It sounds like a collmination or tilt problem to me there should be a routine in the software or instriument to redefine the axis and collmination. You are seeing data like that because in face 1 all the error is in the same direction observing face 2 tells you how far the instrument is off. The adjustment process should be done every 20 degree or so temperature change I do it at 10 degree changes.

Sounds like it's time to run through the collimation routine to me. A vertical index that's out or tracking that is off will cause the errors you are describing. Single face shots will check with other single face shots because they are being affected by similar error (depending on distance of shot). Doubled or two face shots will cancel the error out, so checking a location that was doubled with a single face shot won't check.

Set up a prism and observe in both faces and record the vertical angles. If they don't add up to within 5"-10" of 360°, your vertical index or tracking (calculation to center of prism) is off.

Survey Pro and Access both have routines to update the collimations stored in the gun. It involves observing a station prism at a certain distance, so the errors can be recalculated.

I purchased a S series gun about a year ago and have been really happy with how it has held its collimations. All the other robots I've owned or used required frequent collimations especially if the weather temperature changed.

FYI - A 800'shot for vertical is pushing the limits of most instruments even if it was doubled. You will always see a vertical difference (at that distance) between a double and single face shot, even if it has a good collimation. It's been my experience that most instruments can't go over 500' with good elevations.

This is not causing all your problem, but on an S6 you can measure up to the bottom notch on the side of the instrument and not allow for any slope, assuming you are using Access or Survey Controller. The software will make the correction and add in the height to the scope. Not sure about other software.

> Sounds like it's time to run through the collimation routine to me.

:good:

Both vertical and for autolock.

Two things:
You're pushing the limits of "good" vertical at 800' with a total station, AND 360 prisms are notoriously poor for traversing with both horizontal and vertical. I'd suggest setting traverse/control with a circular prism on a good rod, or ideally with a tripod.

Good suggestion...I would also suspect a vertical index proble.

There is a calibration routine on the instrument itself. You take the TCU off (if installed) and run through it. I did that and now the splits look really good.

> Two things:
> You're pushing the limits of "good" vertical at 800' with a total station, AND 360 prisms are notoriously poor for traversing with both horizontal and vertical. I'd suggest setting traverse/control with a circular prism on a good rod, or ideally with a tripod.

Ditto that. 800' seems like a mighty long shot on the S6.
Me and a buddy hit a 1300' shot once (not traversing) and we got a little scorning for it. Being I was new to the gun I asked about its ability on distances and was told we pretty much stretched it out on that. Since it wasn't a traverse shot the boss let us slide with that one but said to not do that again.

Personally, I don't trust robots for traverses. First time I watched one "collect sets"/"double angles" it was way off! Mathematically it turns them fine. Using eyeballs through the scope it wasn't anywhere close.

That was just my experience.
E

The autolock doesn't point along the same path as the human eye, that's why there is a mathematical compensation for autolock collimation.

It becomes a problem when the autolock doesn't point to two prisms the same way. This is usually only caused when one is dirty, covered in raindrops, etc.

You can turn great traverses with a robot using autolock, but you have to know what to watch out for.

Thank you everyone for the help. I ran the collimation adjustment along with turning off autolock when taking shots on the BS and ended up getting much better results.

Most of you who know the S6 have nailed this one.
Specifically, you would never run a level loop at distances over 500' why would you try it with a robot? The same principles apply and you are allowing for heat waves and other atmospheric interference.

Traversing with the 360 is never a good idea unless you are using the active prism or better yet the new AT360 active target that just came out a month or so ago. (2,395.00)
The cross hair remains centered exactly in the center of the target, but you need the latest firmware installed in the S6 in order for it to recognize it.