Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO) Official News Release

Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO)

Wow.... tough love there. Not much support for all of those users of older equipment who purchased with the expectation that the software they got for post-processing with the purchase would not become obsolete and non-functional sometime in the future with no notice. If was reliant on GPSurvey or TGO, I would be pi$$ed. And I would be buying some other brand of gear in the future when upgrading.

For chuckles, what is the cost to buy TBS if you have to? People might want to look at GrafNav/GrafNet as a postprocessing suite instead. It is receiver independent, that is it works with all brands of GPS data.

Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO)

We do spend a lot of cash for software. It doesn't seem right to only offer temporary fix. In this economy 30 days, then buy our other product seems heartless to me. I've always liked Trimble Products. When I open my own shop I might consider another product at this point.

Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO)

TGO was discontinued on December 31, 2010.

Today is Sept 22, 2011.

Not impressed.

Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO)

> For chuckles, what is the cost to buy TBS if you have to? People might want to look at GrafNav/GrafNet as a postprocessing suite instead. It is receiver independent, that is it works with all brands of GPS data.

Trimble Business Center Advanced (TBC Advanced) is $2995; I think (not sure) that annual maintenance is optional. GrafNav/GrafNet is $6500, plus required annual maintenance.

I'm sure the latter is great software, but that's a tough $$ differential to swallow.

What Is Unique About September 14, 2011 ?

Not a GPS week rollover?

Definitely not a Y2K problem?

No change in satellite data format?

My speculation is that it was a built in drop dead date in the software. Whoever wrote the software knew it would not work, news releases not withstanding.

Paul in PA

Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO)

Thanks Jim. Surprised at both prices, GrafNav has really gone up (was 10 years ago I bought a copy) and I am surprised at the price of TBCA, I would have not thought it was that low. Of course, maybe it is a real risk to get it without a maintenance agreement.

Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO)

Novatel/Waypoint has a "scaled down" version of GrafNav, that processes Static Baselines (no kinematic), that sells for about $3000 if I recall (it's been a year or so). I think it's called “GrafNav_Static.” Like the full blown ($6500 version), it handles just about any receiver/antenna combination.

I have found it to be VERY consistent with PAGES, and reasonably easy to use. It comes with a really good manual, and all of the output files are ASCII. The antenna calibration files (both SV and receiver) are also ASCII, so it's easy to update to new antennas (and birds).

EDIT: I just looked it up in my records...$3045

Loyal

Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO)

I have L1's Trimble 4600LS's, has anyone used Ashtech's GNSS 3.60 off the internet? L1 is free and L1/L2 is $995.00. I was able to do static baselines and tomorrow morning I am going to try post process kinematic and fast static. I tried using TBC but my files blew up at upload (busy time of year for me so I didn't pursue it). GNSS didn't look too difficult, unlike TBC which looks like a shotgun shooting flies.

And as for the future, forget Trimble. I bought new instead of used due to the fact I thought I would get support. Dumb me. In the future if I buy Trimble it would have to be used at rock bottom prices with the understanding that I would look to the aftermarket for support.

Kinematic On GNSS Solutions

Solutions has some preferences on kinematic files that appear to be different from what Trimble expects. I am not a regular kinematic user and have been stymied so far in finding what makes those files click in Solutions.

Paul in PA

What Is Unique About September 14, 2011 ?

Topcon Tools had a similar bug a few years ago. Files collected past a certain date just wouldn't process. It was an bug in the processing engine that went back multiple versions. However, they patched Tools quickly and no maintenance fees were required.

Kinematic On GNSS Solutions

Hello,

I did some static baselines testing (2 loops) Yesterday with two 4600LS and one 5800 with the Ashtech software. The software is simple to use and results were achieved.

Couple of things I am not sure about:

At the import, I believe each antenna height came in with its default offset value of the receiver type (if I recall correctly -0.107 and -0.065). So I keyed-in the slant values (4600) and the vertical value (5800) that I measured in the field. I am not sure if I was suppose to key in the measured values in the field (taped) or apply the difference. Example the 5800 was on a standard 2m pole, was I suppose to key in 1.935 (or 2.065?) to get to the actual reception point or the software does it automatically?

With a L1/L2 receiver and the L1 only processing software option, does the software accepts the data, ignoring the L2 and processing L1? Or does it reject the file all together?

I will compare the results with TBC when I receive the demo CD.

Georges

Kinematic On GNSS Solutions

>With a L1/L2 receiver and the L1 only processing software option, does the software accepts the data, ignoring the L2 and processing L1? Or does it reject the file all together?

it rejects L2, but still processes L1 code and phase. ( For first 29 days GNSS Solution processes L1/L2 )

Never tried kinematic it this software package.

This very disappointing!!!??? When we bought this software there was no expectation that sometime in the future it would quit working. How many of us would buy a car or truck and in five or ten years later be told that the would be no more parts or support to fix any mechanical problems you will experience and the fix was to buy a new car or truck. That company would deserve to go out of business. Especially when the economy is in the state it is in currently and you are trying to hang on to what you have to make it through the recession-depression. Very irresponsible!!! I will never buy anything Trimble ever again. We don't have $3000 to buy the fix to this problem.

I think Trimble is shooting itself in the foot. This is going to alienate some people who may never go back. And it just encourages the Trimble bashers out there. I have been a longtime Trimble user (25 years), and have no plans to change. But, there are always a group of people who seem to like to criticize Trimble (jealousy?). I don't belittle Leica, or Ashtech, etc. I think they are all good products, each has advantages and disadvantages, none is perfect.

First of all, I don't blame them for the problem. Bugs happen. I do a lot of programming, and things like this always pop up. You fix them, and move on.

But, TGO is a very widely used program. Many people use it and trust it. I have TBC, and am planning to transition over, but it is not as easy for me as it is for most other users. I have a whole work flow built around TGO and the access database files it creates. I am about 90% along converting my programs to work with TBC, which no longer uses the access database. I have found the processor to be noticeably better with problematic data sets, of which there have been more than usual this summer, probably due to solar activity.

This recent fatal problem is strictly due to a programming bug, nothing else. As such, it should be easy to fix and Trimble should do it. TGO is not obsolete, it was working just fine up until last Wednesday. The fact that they "discontinued support" means to me there won't be any more updates or new versions, but I think they owe it to their MANY users who paid significant money to purchase TGO to fix this problem. And it gives the appearance (probably deserved) that the only reason they discontinued support for TGO was to sell more TBC. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, some of us need a reason to switch.

My problem going forward is that while I do all final processing, adjustments, etc, I do have a need for a processor to use as a quick check in the field. I cannot justify buying two copies of TBC just so that my employee (or myself) can run a quick check on the data collected before returning home from often very distant job sites.

I do a lot of programming for my own use, but I did develop software (to log data at CORS sites from Trimble receivers) once that I sold, and I understand and support the need for copy protection. But the problem with a dongle is that it can only be one place at a time, and I am a scatterbrain who often forgets to bring things when I leave the office. I use logmein extensively, so that I can access my office PC from the road. But not everywhere has good interenet access. I use Geolab for adjustments, and if I need it in the field I can transfer the license remotely to my laptop.

I also fault Trimble for not immediately (last week) posting a message about this problem instead of letting people slowly find out for themselves.

I believe this will become a classic case of how not to handle a problem.

I exchanged some email with the Novatel U.S. West regional sales manager after learning about the $6500 bite for Grafnav/Graftnet. I explained the TGO glitch and suggested that they consider special pricing on Grafnav/Grafnet for TGO users as a way to turn Trimble customers into Novatel customers. He's going to discuss it with his product management team. Hard to say whether anything comes of it, but I'm exploring all options at this point.

Thats encouraging Jim. When I used GrafNav/GrafNet it was Waypoint Consulting's software and they were superior in taking care of the customer. If the key people are still there since Novatel has purchased them, maybe they will look to fill the gap. BTW the KAR processor in GrafNav is one of the best kinnematic processors out there for post-processed kinematic positioning IMHO. The user interface is very very good.

Grafnav

I purchased Grafnav about 12 years ago specifically to process airborne GPS data (i.e. trajectories). Worked great. At the time, I also tried it on some static data. Not so good. I have not had any ABGPS projects for a few years, so I have not kept up with Grafnav. As others have said, customer service was very good.

But, based on what others have said, it must have improved a lot on the static side. It would be nice to have a good third party processor. And Loyal says it is very close to PAGES results, which is a good endorsement. On the other hand, TBC will process most anything else (rinex) as well, and is significantly less than Grafnav. And, it does conventional. The current price difference means that most surveyors (translate: cheapskates) would not spend the extar money.

Kinematic On GNSS Solutions

I would do it the same way as if you were going to send the data to OPUS. That is, convert it to rinex, look the rinex header over, and use arp heights. But since this software is free and potentially saving you thousands of dollars on an upgrade, surely it would be worth your time to level between a few points, gps them, and make sure you are getting the expected results.

Wow. At a time when GPS users may have to make significant upgrades in the near future (due to Lightsquared), it seems like a bad time to refuse to fix a bug in your software, especially when it was discontinued less than a year ago ...

Trimble makes fantastic equipment, probably the best line of equipment there is, but I have concerns about purchasing their equipment because they don't seem to care the least bit about their users. Why have loyality to a company that has no loyality to it's customers?