Total station advice

A dime saved in construction survey cost, usually cost 10 times that to fix the mistakes.?ÿ?ÿ

I'm building a new house and fee charged by the general contractor is kinda high; I figured I'd just hire and coordinate the trades myself.?ÿ Can you provide me some hints/guidance on how to act as my own GC??ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ

If it's just laying our rectangular foundations from control set by the Surveyor I don't see a problem with that.?ÿ When I did construction staking we would set offsets on enough corners so the carpenters could lay out the details from that.?ÿ That was usually on a flat pad.?ÿ I could see where doing that on a non-flat site would be a lot easier with a total station.

My advice is buy new from a dealer so you have some support, it'll cost more but I don't trust used instruments especially with no support (assuming you've never used a Total Station before).?ÿ Total Stations are sensitive, it may seem okay but the splits are minutes off.

If it's just laying our rectangular foundations from control set by the Surveyor I don't see a problem with that.

To clarify...assuming construction stakeout is not regulated as the practice of surveying in a particular state, I have no problem with contractors doing it themselves.?ÿ

Car repair doesn't require licensure, but I still think it would be poor form to go on a message board for auto mechanics and ask how to change the timing chain on a 2008 Tacoma because the mechanics I've talked to quoted me prices that are "kinda high".?ÿ?ÿ Just how I roll....carry on.

?ÿ

I'd start with a partial station first to get some experience.

Posted by: not my real name

I'd start with a partial station first to get some experience.

Like a Wild T-16 and a Lufkin Nubian...get so you can compute diagonals in your head...and only use well calibrated and adjusted plumb bobs.

Watch out for zero lot lines, setbacks, easements, building codes, plat notes, etc.

remember...there are three lawyers lining up to teach you the difference in those four letter words...COST and RISK

DDSM

I think that any total station setup you could buy for under $2k would be more trouble than it's worth. By the time you payed what you need to for a useful setup you would be more understanding about the cost of stakeout.?ÿ

The electronics start to go out on these things and we know that getting a repair tech to unscrew the cover will cost near $2k. That's the point were guys put them on ebay and try to sell it for the price of the down payment on a new one.?ÿ

Thanks for the responses to the guys who didn't get offended as I wasn't trying to offend. I'm not looking to go out and do my own surveying on lots or anything. I'll leave that to the pros but I have to do 2 layouts. One for excavation and then another to set the corner points on the footers before the mason starts. In my area that's around 1k+ to a surveyor. So if it saves me money then having a new tool and a skill seems like a natural way to go.

James I agree GC's do charge alot of money and I would for sure give someone advice if they wanted to save some money and do it themselves. Hell that's how I ended up as a GC. That's kinda the point of forums so people with less experience can get advice from those with more.

That's what I was wondering is if these old units were worth it or not. Maybe I save my money for a new unit.

Yeah, theres no way you would really save money. $1,000 ish is pretty cheap. But if you're looking for a dirt cheap total station, not only are you paying for the equipment, the wasted time it would take for you to learn it, you would also need to pay to have another guy on the rod moving while you take shots.

?ÿ

For what you're doing you would really benefit from a Topcon LN-100 or Spectra Precision Focus 35. Both are a lot more than the 2k budget you were asking for but if you wanted to do construction layout quick and easily those are really your best options.

The tract house foundation guys I watched doing layout used two steel 100' tapes from a 20'o/s and 80'o/s to the front pl set on the lot line by the site surveyor .?ÿ Damn good at it too.?ÿ But in the tech boom why not use....

Jp

"Splain something to me", how do you plan to layout the foundations?

Explain your thought process on how you plan to do it.

I mean how do you plan to determine the angle and distance to turn to get to the desired point?

Do you have a Cadd system, Autocad for instance with the lot on it and do you have the house placed on on the lot? So you label some coordinates for your house corners or your box corners and then what?

I am very curious how you think it is gonna work.

I have sat at my 'puter for hrs, figuring out WHERE that architect blew the plans... They don't close by 3". Or a wall thickness.

If you do this... Buy a 2k total station... You will in fact:

Learn quite fo sho, the difference between one inch, and one second.

Save $ on some jobs.?ÿ

Loose $ on others.

Get a thorough edication.

And, you might like that.

Go for it. Use it ONLY on the simple jobs.

And, as you learn, you will learn.... More than you meant to...

Hey, its a free country!?ÿ

A sirvay licensunse is really a big fat mitsake permit!

🙂

Buy a nice builders transit too. With a plumb bob. They are handy. Get a good one for 600 easy. And a good 100' tape for 40$.

Lektric ones... With edm, and prizim... Yeah, check that prism offset factor.

Nothin to it.

We surbeyors forget how much we know sometimes.

Say, when you buy that thing off ebay, be sure and check the optical plummet. With a plumb bob, or something... They maybe put a tribrach on it that was not quite right...

Nothin to it.?ÿ

Learn to index the crosshairs.

Easy

N

?ÿ

I'd venture that?ÿmost houses?ÿin this country wasn't laid out by surveyors. And as long as you know you have a little cushion between you and the setback line, you're good to go. Seeing as lots of contractors get pretty proficient with total stations, not sure how bad we should flame this guy. For example, I know these guys do their own layout and don't use a "surveyor". https://www.unifoundations.com/portfolio.html

Most construction layout guys I've met are way better with a total station than most licensed surveyors I know. They have to be.

Most contractors I encounter around here own Surveying equipment but not cheap eBay stuff. I see them with shiny new looking robots and RTK. Time is money, futzing around with cheap equipment with the plummets way out or the collimation way off isn't for them. ?ÿIt's pretty standard for contractors to at least have a total station for layout purposes.

Just bear in mind the surveyor is responsible for more than just setting out a rectangle, the surveyor also has to be sure the setbacks are met, even more basic is making sure the house is being built on the correct property, not to mention trucks, personnel, office, expensive equipment, liability.

I don't think the PLS Act prohibits a contractor from doing their own layout work. It prohibits them from holding out to third parties as a construction staking business but they can stake their own work because it is incidental to construction which they have a license to do. Whether they should do it is another question. It would be better to pass the costs along to the client and let the LS have the liability.

I do not intend to flame the guy, or discourage him.

Really.?ÿ

But, to make him wary.

N

I agree with James & Frozen on this one.?ÿ To what James had to say, hopping on a Surveyor's message board and leading with (paraphrase) "dang, you guys are expensive.?ÿ Can you give me some advice on how to do this myself on the cheap?" is probably gonna lead to flames.?ÿ

To what Frozen had to say, Surveyor's don't?ÿhave?ÿa monopoly on trig OR modern angle turning/distance measuring gear to apply it with.?ÿ

I've worked?ÿon plenty of jobs with foundation crews that were more than capable of doing every bit of the layout themselves (once they had good starting points) whether it be with a?ÿrobot or a string and tape.?ÿ I've also worked on plenty where they don't want or care to do it themselves (it's the ones in the middle that scare the crap out of me).?ÿ?ÿFine by me either way.?ÿ On the ones they are willing to do it themselves I shed the liability, on the ones that don't want to touch it I charge accordingly and get paid for being the expert.

To the OP.?ÿ Honestly, $2k on ebay probably isn't enough.?ÿ?ÿFind a Surveyor you trust?ÿand buy their older well cared for gear that's been sitting on the shelf collecting dust if you really want to do it on the low.?ÿ?ÿOffer to pay him/her to train you on what the buttons do.?ÿ

The GTS-300 instruments?ÿwere solid, I have one in the closet that?ÿI'll probably never let go.?ÿ If using it regularly I would worry about the handle battery and being able to find someone to recell?ÿit when it dies though.?ÿ I?ÿdon't have any experience with newer?ÿTopcon gear than that.?ÿ Leica?ÿ1100 series TS I see around for roughly $4k and would be a major upgrade from the?ÿGTS however they?ÿare no longer supported by Leica so if it breaks you need to have a shop close?ÿthat can swap?ÿnewer parts into older instruments.?ÿ

A Leica 1200 or?ÿearly gen Trimble S6 should be able to be found for less than $8k if you're patient and would probably be the cat's meow for what you're wanting to do.?ÿ They're both rock solid and would be a good bridge?ÿbetween a more modern user interface and price point.?ÿ?ÿWhatever you choose to do, good luck!?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ

Frozennorth thanks for backing me up a little. Feeling a little attacked all of a sudden. Seems like everyone wants to prove how smart they are and how I can't possible take on learning how to use a total station for foundation layout. I feel like every one is assuming I'll just buy a tool and it will do all the work for me. I know I need knowledge and I have already investigated courses in my area so I can learn to use the tool once I get it. I just wanted some advice on buying used units.

?ÿFeeling a little attacked all of a sudden. Seems like everyone wants to prove how smart they are and how I can't possible take on learning how to use a total station for foundation layout.

To be honest, it does say "FNG" below your name... ??ÿ

Posted by: teberhard

I know I need knowledge and I have already investigated courses in my area so I can learn to use the tool once I get it. I just wanted some advice on buying used units.

Dang...that is why I suggested an optical theodolite and a quality steel tape. You can buy set up for $300-600 range. Learn measurement basics, geometry, simple equipment adjustment, error analysis...then study the various total station specifications...you will know what will meet your needs. Anybody can do it! I did...and still learning after 32 years as a PS.

Good luck (and check your E/O insurance)

DDSM