Client has a tract at the edge of a city.?ÿ Description starts with aliquot part and transitions to metes and bounds (no bounds) description.?ÿ Fairly typical situation near cities.?ÿ The city annexed a portion of it years ago in order to supply city utilities to the commercial building.?ÿ So, he is selling the portion inside the city limits but keeping the remainder.?ÿ No big deal.?ÿ The problem is that the city wrote the description for the portion they annexed without a survey.?ÿ Again, standard procedure.?ÿ The buyer is happy to wait on a survey to mark the true boundaries of where the part annexed is located but close ASAP as he wants to move in and open a business.?ÿ The city portion is something like 150 feet by 200 feet, no funny numbers simply north south east west.?ÿ Title company insists on waiting until there is a survey of the 150 by 200 foot tract where the measurements will be identical with the annexation description but the bearings will be a little off from north south east west.?ÿ The job went from "do it when it fits into your schedule" to "HOLY MOLY,?ÿ We apparently need it NOW!"?ÿ NOW isn't possible.?ÿ Maybe in 10 days if I bump about 15 other clients.?ÿ When did things change from closings that would happen with a rough description to be finalized by an amended description following a survey??ÿ I can't count the number of times we've been involved with one of those type closings.
A rare example of a title company making a good decision.
They usually want the survey before they close.?ÿ
The County Appraiser already treats the tract as being two tracts.?ÿ One within the city limits using the description written by the city years ago and the other being the original tract description less that same description.?ÿ If the owner stopped paying his taxes on one part, that would be the only part potentially lost to a tax sale, not the entire tract.?ÿ We've done many surveys over the years where we weren't even contacted until after the closing where the description expressly stated that a correction deed would be recorded following completion of a survey.
[?ÿ .?ÿ .?ÿ .?ÿ ]?ÿ after the closing where the description expressly stated that a correction deed would be recorded following completion of a survey.
Hmm.?ÿ Around here a correction deed is most often used for minor mistakes, such as misspelled or incomplete names, missing or wrong middle initials, and omission of marital status or vesting information.?ÿ No survey involved.?ÿ I suspect the Title Company is overreacting if requiring a description be surveyed that states "something like 150 feet by 200 feet, no funny numbers simply north south east west."?ÿ It seems like folly to require a post closing survey which would trigger an ROS if monuments were set, and a "new" deed prepared that probably would describe the parcel as 150.00x200.00 feet with slightly rotated bearings.
But, if someone's willing to pay (and a survey that triggers an ROS for me is bargain basement?ÿ priced @ $3,000+) so sign up and make some money ????.?ÿ And if somebody's screaming ASAP my fee goes way up as I have to dig into overtime and mollifying clients higher up on the list.
if you knew how often title companies cover the financial asses of surveyors and our insurance policies you might have a different take on that.
I'll surmise that the mileage of each Title company is similar to anything else. The standards of care and ethics are just a starting point, and the full customer and professional experience will probably depend on the relationship and longevity of the same.
<shrug>
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You get the gold star for using mollifying for the first time I've been reading this website in 3 years.?ÿ Of Course BillC or Wendell will give me the exact last usage of the same, which Is why i love reading through here instead of watching TV, and sometimes to avoid studying too, like right now.?ÿ
Of course- I??m sure you??re right. Speaking more on a macro level. Back when I was doing that exam gig at the title company I got shuttled off to all kinds of meetings and seminars with underwriters and title attorneys and at some point the data was presented that something like 60-70% of claims that involve survey errors get paid by title without the surveyor ever even hearing about it. I can??t speak to the veracity of those numbers, but the context in which they were presented didn??t give me any immediate pause to doubt them.
And thats a fair representative pool being on the inside. Where I bought my house in a county in Colorado where houses were sold without a CO and signed off by the local title companies, I sold my recent house under a Special Warranty deed to avoid claiming to know anything a reasonable person might know due to the previous economic down turn, bad faith, a failed planned unit development (PUD) all signed off by the local title companies.
Mileage and circustances always depend.
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😉
No, that would have no bearing on my opinion on how often title companies are on the wrong side of arguments.?ÿ
Are you saying I should be so grateful for the services they are paid to provide that I shouldn't call them out for being wrong??ÿ
I wouldn't buy a piece of property that had never been surveyed. So many things can go wrong no matter how simple the description sounds. I think its reasonable for the title company to refuse to back a description that ar this point only exists in people's heads.?ÿ
In Alaska it is illegal to subdivide any parcel into pieces less than 40 acres without a survey. It cuts way down on the burden of boundary disputes to court system.?ÿ
no, and i'm not trying to pick a fight with you.?ÿ just pointing out that there might sometimes be considerations that are outside or beyond what we are concerned with specifically as surveyors.?ÿ and that we aren't perfect either.
Just prepare a description that looks exactly like the county annex description. Add 'along' called for lines and 'along' west boundary of city limit in February 2021. They just need it to fit on paper for now.
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Just prepare a description that looks exactly like the county annex description. Add 'along' called for lines and 'along' west boundary of city limit in February 2021. They just need it to fit on paper for now.
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something like 60-70% of claims that involve survey errors get paid by title without the surveyor ever even hearing about it.
And how many of those are really a survey error and how many were just thought cheaper to pay out rather than investigate?
sure, bill, but that's kind of exactly my point.?ÿ my first real heartbreak in this regard came before i was even an SIT- i'd done weeks of research and digging, phone calls and meetings to gather info that proved a line had been arbitrarily moved and that the current landowner didn't have iron clad title to about half an acre that was going to be condemned by the state.?ÿ i was right.?ÿ in a vacuum, in the world of surveying, i was correct.?ÿ to this day i'm 100% confident that i was right.?ÿ but the state and their contracted title company weighed the cost of just paying the guy for it as opposed to engaging in some kind of legal battle and decided to cut bait.?ÿ it made me furious, the RPLS i worked for at the time told me it didn't matter, the point was getting the highway built.?ÿ again, i didn't have any skin in the game, and had been paid well to do all the homework on something that was pointless from the beginning.?ÿ but i realized then and there that we can always aspire to get it right, but sometimes we're not the ultimate authority, and "survey right" doesn't equal "rubber meets the road right."?ÿ didn't- and won't- change how i go about my work, but did change my expectations regarding whether or not i'll always be listened to.
@flyin-soo
I appreciate their services, but too many surveyors give in to them. We need to work with them and educate them not give them everything they want.