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This is not a survey, please certify it.

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Andy Nold
(@andy-nold)
Posts: 2016
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I have been asked to sign and seal a drawing showing a river crossing. No boundary information is present in the drawing other than the natural monument, the river.

When I sign and seal something, it is my assertion that the something meets the minimum technical standards for a boundary survey. If the drawing has no boundary info and I sign it, am I lying?

What do they think my seal and signature means? Is it just like sealing wax and ribbons that make the document look more officially?

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 1:58 pm
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7889
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Andy Nold, post: 356596, member: 7 wrote: If the drawing has no boundary info and I sign it, am I lying?

If you sign something that says: surveyed by you or under your direct, personal supervision and it wasn't; then you are lying...

Make sure you get paid enough to cover any liability you might face....:snarky:

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 2:05 pm
(@lamon-miller)
Posts: 525
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In my area when we sign and stamp we are certifying we are in responsible charge of acquiring the content of the drawing, no matter what it is.

I've done topo drawings of a 1/4 acre site in the middle of a 100 acre tract without showing boundaries.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 2:10 pm
(@skwyd)
Posts: 599
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I've signed and sealed plenty of topographic surveys that don't show any boundary information. Even when the topography crossed over boundaries. I was certifying that the information that was shown on the exhibit was prepared under my direction.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 2:36 pm
(@tom-adams)
Posts: 3453
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Andy Nold, post: 356596, member: 7 wrote: I have been asked to sign and seal a drawing showing a river crossing. No boundary information is present in the drawing other than the natural monument, the river.

When I sign and seal something, it is my assertion that the something meets the minimum technical standards for a boundary survey. If the drawing has no boundary info and I sign it, am I lying?

What do they think my seal and signature means? Is it just like sealing wax and ribbons that make the document look more officially?

In my state, whenever I produce a plat, document or any product (it has several other words that mean document) that is the result of a land survey it must bear my signature and seal. Land Surveying is defined in our statutes. I might put out a document that is not a result of a land survey, but I don't sign and seal that document. I might write a description that is several pages long, and I'll sign and seal all the pages of that document.

I'm not a lawyer, and not expert in law, but I would consider it as bad to affix my signature and seal to something that shouldn't have it as I would to not signing and sealing something that should.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 2:44 pm

MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
Posts: 9987
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Andy Nold, post: 356596, member: 7 wrote: I have been asked to sign and seal a drawing showing a river crossing. No boundary information is present in the drawing other than the natural monument, the river.

When I sign and seal something, it is my assertion that the something meets the minimum technical standards for a boundary survey. If the drawing has no boundary info and I sign it, am I lying?

What do they think my seal and signature means? Is it just like sealing wax and ribbons that make the document look more officially?

It's not just boundary surveys that I sign and seal, I'm not sure what you are discussing, it might be something I would do.

I do need to have done the survey, the drawing, the petition, permit, consent, whatever it is, not interested in signing for other's work

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 2:46 pm
Andy Nold
(@andy-nold)
Posts: 2016
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My point is specifically that the board considers your signature as acknowledgment that you have met the minimum technical standards for a boundary survey. The field work was done under my supervision but we did not tie any boundary information. The drawing is my work but is not up to minimum standards for a boundary survey.

In discussions with Kris Morgan, he suggests that the provision in the land surveying act that allows for a surveyor to certify other items than just boundary surveys allows one to certify the correctness of the data shown without it having to be a boundary survey. He was nice enough to share language from a certification that I will add to the drawing and probably go ahead and certify to.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 2:59 pm
(@shawn-billings)
Posts: 2689
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I've certified to other work. The former investigator for the TBPLS didn't agree when I asked him about it. But I feel pretty good about the clear language of the rule you're referring to.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:03 pm
(@jack-chiles)
Posts: 356
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Andy,

the Board stipulates that a signed and sealed document by itself does not mean it is a boundary survey. All it means is that you bear the responsibility for the data contained within. I know you have performed a topographic and planimetric survey several times. Were they always boundary surveys also?

"Hakuna matata", my friend.

JRC

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:04 pm
paden-cash
(@paden-cash)
Posts: 11088
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Andy Nold, post: 356616, member: 7 wrote: ...the provision in the land surveying act that allows for a surveyor to certify other items than just boundary surveys allows one to certify the correctness of the data shown without it having to be a boundary survey...

True up here, also. A couple of things that come to mind are liquor stores' proximities to schools and churches and billboards set back from (as stated in the ordinance) the centerline of the road. I've 'certified' to the measurements shown, but with no boundary info at all.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:07 pm

holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25369
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You can certify to things other than boundary surveys. One example is what is called a "No Start Certificate". All you are doing is certifying that you were at a specific location on a specific day and you did not observe any construction materials laying around or evidence of actual construction having been started. Absolutely nothing to do with surveying, but you are recognized as being a disinterested third party who has met certain licensing criteria by the State suggesting you are a trustworthy reporter of facts.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:07 pm
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7889
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I've signed several drawings that stated: This Is Not a Boundary Survey. Maybe you could share your note with us...:hi5:

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:12 pm
Warren Smith
(@warren-smith)
Posts: 830
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Holy Cow, post: 356621, member: 50 wrote: You can certify to things other than boundary surveys ... Absolutely nothing to do with surveying, but you are recognized as being a disinterested third party who has met certain licensing criteria by the State suggesting you are a trustworthy reporter of facts.

That is a rebuttable presumption, and the contrary can be shown. 😉

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:13 pm
(@jack-chiles)
Posts: 356
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I must add a caveat,

If the document has language on it that clearly states it is a boundary survey, it better be done correctly. If the language states the survey is a topographic survey, that's all it is.

I personally think if the tract is delineated by lines that have bearings and distances, with found or set monuments at the ends, deeds showing junior/senior rights (for adjoiners and project site), current deeds (for adjoiners and project site), references to Control Monuments held, acreage, etc., it probably would be considered a boundary survey even if you don't specifically say so on the plat.

On the other hand, if a drawing had all of those things on it, but had a disclaimer that said something like, "This is NOT a boundary survey and cannot be used as such", how could anyone have a leg to stand on if they tried to do so?

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:15 pm
(@arctanx-2-2)
Posts: 416
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Andy Nold, post: 356616, member: 7 wrote: He was nice enough to share language from a certification that I will add to the drawing and probably go ahead and certify to.

Any chance you could share the language used? I've been asked to certify a lease plat and I haven't actually surveyed the land. I've just made a document shading the sections of land specified in the lease document.
So I'm supposed to certify that I've read the lease document and that the graphical representation I've made of the land is the same.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:17 pm

MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
Posts: 9987
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It's only boundaries that get signed?

That isn't the case everywhere

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:35 pm
(@tom-adams)
Posts: 3453
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Can't an employee, or citizen sign that they hereby certify to blah blah blah...without having to stamp a surveyor's or engineer's seal to something that wasn't surveying or engineering?

Now measurement is within the realm of surveying (a function of surveying) so I could see a topographic map with no boundary lines shown. But I don't know why you would throw your surveyors seal on a statement that you were @ such and such an address and didn't see any construction activity going on.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 3:47 pm
Andy Nold
(@andy-nold)
Posts: 2016
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Topic starter
 

MightyMoe, post: 356628, member: 700 wrote: It's only boundaries that get signed?

That isn't the case everywhere

Yeah, I don't think I have ever certified a strictly topo. I've certified boundary with topo on it.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 4:03 pm
nate-the-surveyor
(@nate-the-surveyor)
Posts: 10522
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you can certify your bill. "I hereby certify that I am worth alot more than this, but, as I'm such a fine fellow, and a friend of the river, I hereby certify that I am charging you 2500...... 🙂

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 4:05 pm
(@imaudigger)
Posts: 2958
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Here it states "All maps, plats, reports, descriptions, or other documents issued by the licensed land surveyor ....shall be signed by the surveyor...to indicate the surveyor's...responsibility for them. In addition...(said documents) shall bear the seal or stamp....and expiration date..."

In my opinion, if someone hires a surveyor for something a simple as establishing an elevation of an object, the final product should bear their signature and stamp as evidence of their responsibility for the data. I would doubt it is much different in other places.

 
Posted : February 4, 2016 4:14 pm

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