While out today doing a lot survey, I came across a quite unique pin. It wasn't your typical pin. Well, it was... but, it wasn't. It was your typical 18" rebar with a cap on it, however the pin wasn't into the ground. This pin had been 'set' by using some wire to attach it to an old fence post. The bottom of the pin was off the ground a good 20-24" from the ground!
This is a new one to me. But I guess this is what you get when you send a crew to pin a corner and they hit the concrete of a fence post and they decide this is the next best thing to do.
Round here it's usually the other way around, Rebar driven in the ground and a 6' piece scrap drove over top it leaning halfway over.
hey, at least you know not to dig for it.
Maybe upon stakeout it read "Out 0.02', right 0.01', Fill 2.85" and their boss had said he wanted .02' or less variation.
I've gone back to survey next door and found my rebar and cap similarly attached to the new fence corner set in it's place.
A few times the rebar and cap was used to tighten the cross brace wires.
Once I found the rebar and cap extending from the top of an 8 inch pipe filled with concrete.
The worst was when I found my rebar looking like a corkscrew and lying next to a new sticky power pole.
A star drill costs less than $10 and online that may buy two.
When I find a place that it is impractical to set a rebar or other monument, like above, I will say to a point and give a bearing and distance tie to the center of the chain link fence corner pipe.
😉
I saw one of mine again today. Not where I set it about four inches from the bottom of power pole. They put a new fence post in as close as they could to the power pole. Meanwhile, they pulled my capped bar and stuck it into the side of the power pole in a knot hole about five feet off the ground. It looks as though I used a bow with a bar instead of an arrow and shot it into the pole.
We tie 'em to posts around here like that in July and August....when the red clay hardpan dries up and gets too hard. :pinch:
Holy Cow, post: 357441, member: 50 wrote: I saw one of mine again today. Not where I set it about four inches from the bottom of power pole. They put a new fence post in as close as they could to the power pole. Meanwhile, they pulled my capped bar and stuck it into the side of the power pole in a knot hole about five feet off the ground. It looks as though I used a bow with a bar instead of an arrow and shot it into the pole.
We work exclusively in new housing subdivisions and "never" have a problem with corners. All the landscapers, sprinkler system installers and Fence Boy's always replace any corner they disturb. They simply whack it back in wherever it looks like it should be. :woot:
Rich., post: 357402, member: 10450 wrote: ...This is a new one to me. But I guess this is what you get when you send a crew to pin a corner and they hit the concrete of a fence post and they decide this is the next best thing to do.
Really? You're seriously blaming the field crew to have done that? I mean, it's possible. We have all met some help that are 'dumb as fence posts' so to speak, but my immediate attention would be to a number of other parties before my attention went to a surveyor. I would probably be tempted to call the fence post the actual corner, but set a 'witness corner' even-offset to the mathematical location.
Who knows... Im not blaming the surveyor himself (unless he was in the field to set the pin) but it would definitely fall on the field crew if this is how they set the pin. It could have been pulled by someone and just put on the fence as it was originally set near the fence, but it also could have been a field crew that had to put the pin against the fence post, so they did this instead.
I as well would have just flagged up the fence post as the corner. And maybe set a witness pin 2' up the sideline and marked it as such on the survey.
Rich., post: 357513, member: 10450 wrote: Who knows... Im not blaming the surveyor himself (unless he was in the field to set the pin) but it would definitely fall on the field crew if this is how they set the pin. It could have been pulled by someone and just put on the fence as it was originally set near the fence, but it also could have been a field crew that had to put the pin against the fence post, so they did this instead.
I as well would have just flagged up the fence post as the corner. And maybe set a witness pin 2' up the sideline and marked it as such on the survey.
If a survey crew did that, I would blame the PLS whether s/he was there or not. That fence post is old and rusted, but that pin is too. I suspect it has been that way a long time. It's hard to say which came first. I guess I just hate hearing people always blaming the surveyor when something looks screwy. But I guess we have all seen other surveyors do some funny things.
that wood fence seems to have a new-ish post. Maybe the corner got pulled out and stuck to the old steel fence post.
That fence post is prolly 60 years old vs the pin which I suspect no more than 5-10. The wood fence is new.
Def is the responsibility of the PLS whether there or not. That's the professional responsibility
[USER=10450]@Rich.[/USER]
"This is a new one to me. But I guess this is what you get when you send a crew to pin a corner and they hit the concrete of a fence post and they decide this is the next best thing to do."
Have the crew (next time) simply set a witness corner, preferably on line, and reference it on your map with enough information to locate the actual corner.
B-)
If that fence post is 60 years old, then I'm wondering why it's not considered as the monument at that lot corner. Seems like it's more representative of the corner than some calc position that put the rod a couple of tenths off of it. Maybe it didn't fit the distances to the 0.01'.
Floating Pin!!???
Some magic trick....I can see the wires holding it up!
JPH, post: 357621, member: 6636 wrote: If that fence post is 60 years old, then I'm wondering why it's not considered as the monument at that lot corner. Seems like it's more representative of the corner than some calc position that put the rod a couple of tenths off of it. Maybe it didn't fit the distances to the 0.01'.
Interesting subject. It is apparent from what I've seen all these years that some surveyors will simply not accept a physical object as a corner monument. I've seen Xs and nails and pins all crammed into stupid places, as if to say "It's OK, a surveyor has been here!"..when the 6" iron post or concrete building corner actually occupies the point. Like a bunch of dogs and a fire hydrant...nobody can pass up the chance to add their scent.
I think the best monument I saw was at the end of a person's picket fence. We were looking for the corners in an old subdivision and when I paced out from the next corner over, I landed right at a fence post of a picket-type fence, about 2.5 feet tall. The metal detector told me that there was something down there, but it appeared to be within the post and not very deep. We dug a bit at the base of the post, but didn't turn up anything. About that time, the owner saw us and came out. "You looking for the pin there?" he asked us. We told him we thought it was right where his fence post landed. He walked up to the post, grabbed the top, gave it a little twist and lifted it. The center of this post was hollow, and straight down was the monument, at ground level. He said that he drilled out this post and sit it right over the monument because he knew that it had to remain in place.
I don't know if that pin had been disturbed or not during the process, but I was pretty impressed at the setup the owner had done!
I become frustrated with the landowners who feel the surveyor's monument is too small to suit their taste so they set a 50 percent larger, nearly identical object three inches from it and leave it up just enough to fool the next surveyor into believing it is the object set by the surveyor. It is far too easy to grab the easily found piece of trash and run with it until the numbers don't balance somehow, somewhere.
Holy Cow, post: 357760, member: 50 wrote: I become frustrated with the landowners who feel the surveyor's monument is too small to suit their taste so they set a 50 percent larger, nearly identical object three inches from it and leave it up just enough to fool the next surveyor into believing it is the object set by the surveyor. It is far too easy to grab the easily found piece of trash and run with it until the numbers don't balance somehow, somewhere.
Yeah, I've experienced plenty of surveys where the field crew came in saying, "Oh yeah, we found that monument about 3 tenths away from where you had the search point calc'd. It was just below grade, too." And, of course, what they found and tied in was a chunk of steel that wasn't the monument. And when they went back out there and dug down about a foot, they would find the ACTUAL monument, in the right place, matching the character as described on the record map.
