I love the idea that somehow technology is the underpinning of surveying. Better technology = easier surveying. ugh.
In policy this is known as a 'softball'. Anyone can knock it out of the park. They only pass when you don't swing. Take it seriously and kill it...
Agreed. It does appear to be a half-hearted effort by the JCC. Still disturbing.
Furthering Shawn Billing's and Tom Adam's posts though...the general public doesn't have a clue of what we really do. I guess that's how it's always been, though.
Except that GIS-esque positions weren't popping up in every industry, then either. The lines are becoming blurred on how far GIS and other mapping (non-licensed) professions can reach. Can the public tell the difference?
Are we still treading the waters of professional vs. tradesmen/women?
They think better measuring technology will eliminate the need for expert knowledge of boundary surveying? Not unless every parcel in the state has been surveyed and the shiny new coordinates registered. That shows that they have no idea what they are talking about, and don't know that boundary is more about law than measurement. Boundary determination is the most important thing to license.
I agree with John Hamilton that certification would be an adequate way to inform clients of qualification for all other forms of surveying. Mistakes and incompetency in those areas generally only causes harm to the client and not the general public, so those get weeded out by reputation and lack of repeat business. Boundary mistakes cost innocent bystanders as often as the client.
James, you couldn't be more correct.
Apparently Indiana is one step ahead of many states in that it at least has its own licensing board and isn't under the jurisdiction of another profession. If I was in Indiana, I would advocate exactly what you have suggested, maybe then our profession and the protection of the public wouldn't be subject to the whims of "special committees" or the legislature.
We can only blame ourselves for how we are looked at by others. We can only blame ourselves for uninformed statements such as "with additions of new technology, the risk to consumers will continue to decrease". Where has the public gotten such ideas from? That is right - us. What is the first selling point made to youngsters, media, and others when we are asked to explain what we do - "Hey, look at the cool technological toys we have!! Yep, we are the "expert measurers"!
Yes, I understand how important measuring is, but we all need to admit that with the advancment of technology, one certainly doesn't need 4 years of college and 4 years of experience to learn how to measure properly, precisely, and accurately.
However, when it comes to boundary retracement, we are the only ones that can and should do this important task. Why? Because it is not technology based. Why aren't these special committees and others trying to de-license doctors, lawyers, accountants, and psychologists? Surely the technology available to many other professions has advanced as fast, if not faster than ours. The tools a profession uses doesn't make it a profession. Professionals help people; they use special skills such as investigation, analysis, experience, and other mental exercises to take a problem, fully analyze the problem, gather relevant evidence, apply logical and legal analysis to the facts, and render well reasoned opinions and solutions that help people resolve problems. This has very little to do with technology.
Maybe we are not ready to be a self-governed profession, as many in our profession may not be ready to advance past the technician stage.
When we face problems such as those currently encountered in Indiana, maybe we need to leave the tools and technology in the truck and advocate as professionals for our profession.
What needs to happen is to move boundary surveying out of the engineering schools and into the law colleges. It's a specialty of law, and would get the recognition it deserves by that association.
Construction surveying is a branch of engineering. Geodetic surveying is a branch of physics and mathematics. All three have been treated together in the past because they share a need for measurement, but measurement shouldn't define them, and as measurement gets easier it should be loosening the tie.
Amen brother, amen.
Only we can do it, so when we going to do it?
I'd love to see self-regulating association in each state, rather than a board of registration run by the state.
Essentially the members of the association is given legal authority to practice a monopoly by what is defined as Land Surveying.
In other words, for us in the USA, follow the Canadian model as a start - Land Surveyors are held in much high regard in Canada.
We need to start following the examples that work in other countries, rather than hold on to a failing model.
I still don't have a correct wall certificate from Washington State - one has my middle name spelled wrong, and the other has the wrong registration number. I believe this is the source of my angst :-S
I'd hate to be regulated by some of the self-aggrandizing egos that appear to run our state society.
Tom Adams, post: 343430, member: 7285 wrote: I'd hate to be regulated by some of the self-aggrandizing egos that appear to run our state society.
I understand what you are saying, completely. The whole thing is, we as surveyors have a say in who the best person is to represent us. Our individual voting rights would dictate who we put on the council. I believe that in a lot of states, state association membership is only a fraction of the number of licensed individuals - those who don't join the association generally don't do it because the self-aggrandizing egos.
Well, that's all I'm going to say....or they'll come after me.
Tom Adams, post: 343430, member: 7285 wrote: I'd hate to be regulated by some of the self-aggrandizing egos that appear to run our state society.
Never thought of that...man that WOULD suck...around here anyway.
Ever since the concept of the Sunset Commission 1976å±, every State license category has come under review and many professionals have been combined with lower qualified trades to minimize agencies who oversee their regulation.
Texas Surveyors have surprised the government by being capable of paying for its way into the future without relying upon tax money from the public.
Every profession needs a government liaison person to keep them in touch with their government and what they are planning.
$1k a year is what I budget for all that.
North Carolina's board sent me a certification for engineering instead of surveying. All the board members signed it despite it clearly having a four digit number prefixed by an L instead of the six digit number used for engineering. You'd think at least one of the nine would have caught the blunder.
Years ago the State of Missouri was considering an expansion of the definition of "Land Surveying" to be more like Florida's which seems to include everything under the sun. The driving force behind the proposed changes was the state surveying society. One area of concern for the company I worked for was the attempt to include photogrammetry as a part of land surveying. I testified against this component of the proposed legislation (as a Missouri PLS) based on my knowledge of surveying and photogrammetry. At the time I couldn't think of any surveyors who actually could be in responsible charge of a photogrammetry project, myself included. It just seemed to be a big grab by the land surveyors and not exactly in the best interests of the people of the state of Missouri. (I was not universally loved by all land surveyors after that).
Anyway, it got me thinking about the whole justification of licensing surveyors to begin with. The wording of the laws suggests it is about the health and safety of the people. Hmmmmm, so why aren't they licensing electricians and plumbers?, among others. I would be willing to bet more harm is done to the people by bad plumbing (think black mold) and electrical work in most years than could ever be done by bad surveyors. Now I'm talking health and safety issues... not bad fence lines or such. Does surveying need to be licensed by states? Maybe not. Even after decades of licensing laws, there are still many crappy surveyors out there. Most of whom don't have enough assets or insurance to make good for their screw-ups.
BTW... Just stirring the pot tonight... I'm retired now... just waiting on my last license to expire.
Happy Trails
As I'm sure many will jump in to tell you, many states license electricians, plumbers, barbers, beauticians, taxi drivers, even interior decorators, and dozens of others.
