Had to check a Legal Description for a developer before they executed the deed.
It was for a ditch relocation which was going to separate the open space from the Phase 4 development.
The Tech that created it did a good job. It mathematically closed.
But I had to wonder about the geometry of it all with 86 courses and having 34 curves of which none were tangent! NONE!
Asking myself if that Tech worked for me, would I have made them do it over?
Would I mentor that person in how to set up the centerline alignment and have every curve be tangent and then just offset to each side?
Being old-school I think I would have done that (perhaps even before they finished the job)!
Glad to be retired so I only have to see this once in a while.
To do it justice, you would need to fix the entire route from end to end and thus, making some monuments being in the wrong place.
When monuments rule over math, you get non tangent curves.
Luke does the legal provide adequate data to calc the true curve data? Like radial bearings or some such.
I have prepared many maps and descriptions that had non-tangent curves, lots of them. But those were Found to be non-tangent from a combination of hard evidence. Existing Situation.
There is no excuse for creating a new alignment like that. You should see if you can confer with the Tech directly and explain how things work.
... did some "engineer" or "surveyor" review and bless this crude product? Hunt that person down and do some face slapping, in private.
A Harris, post: 455652, member: 81 wrote: To do it justice, you would need to fix the entire route from end to end and thus, making some monuments being in the wrong place.
When monuments rule over math, you get non tangent curves.
What monuments?
Something has to be in place to retrace the boundaries and easements.
A Harris, post: 455662, member: 81 wrote: Something has to be in place to retrace the boundaries and easements.
how about CORS ties? it is getting common
with proper metadata it can work well
Luke CO PLS, post: 455650, member: 1220 wrote: Had to check a Legal Description for a developer before they executed the deed.
It was for a ditch relocation which was going to separate the open space from the Phase 4 development.
The Tech that created it did a good job. It mathematically closed.
But I had to wonder about the geometry of it all with 86 courses and having 34 curves of which none were tangent! NONE!
Asking myself if that Tech worked for me, would I have made them do it over?
Would I mentor that person in how to set up the centerline alignment and have every curve be tangent and then just offset to each side?
Being old-school I think I would have done that (perhaps even before they finished the job)!Glad to be retired so I only have to see this once in a while.
Why do they have to be tangent? If you're tying to fit a feature it may not be tangent, say such as a drainage ditch. I'm a HUGE fan of three point curves which fit was is there but may not be tangent. I've yet to chase a highway curve that was truly laid out and monumented as tangent. I've seen some that are close but mostly not. The only thing where I really work on tangency is on railroads because of the way the rails are spiral, curve, spiral, you can't really work with the centerline, as it exists today, to come up with the simple curves of the 19th century. But you can use the tangents, PI's and tangent distances to generate tangent curves that work VERY well. Otherwise, who cares if the curve is tangent or not?
If an alignment is being created, there is no excuse for the curves not to be tangent. If you are defining an existing alignment like an old roadway or other feature that just happened and was not designed, you have the option of
1. Using a tangent curve that doesn't quite fit the existing alignment.
2. Creating a PI no curve before and/or after the curve to make it tangent.
3. Using a non tangent curve that fits the existing alignment.
4. Define the alignment by short chords.
The approach for the specific applications "depends". Sometimes a tangent curve does not fit the situation.
If the engineers are OK with non tangent curves why should the surveyor care? As long as enough curves elements are given a non tangent curve is just as easy to locate as a tangent curve.
I don't know how much from tangent the description is but let me guess; the preamble of the description cites something like the centerline of a ditch which is the following courses and distances...
Oh sure the ditch was located/measured in significant detail to warrant the non-tangent description. Its a ditch! And besides, that's what my fancy program said to do.
I suggest that the OP recommend that the description be rejected and that another be crafted that will not cause distress to the adjacent development and those who have to regenerate its location. And thank them for allowing you to review it.
As to "if the engineers are OK with"... I reject that premise. I don't know but a very small handful of engineers that are qualified to speak on the subject of legal descriptions much less craft one.
Why would an "engineer" make this curve non-tangent?
Why?
EDIT: it only took this "surveyor" several hours to discover that it was non-tangent (it seems so obvious now, doesn't it?).
What kind of Utility Easement is a DUE? I have never seen a DUE before.
Scott Ellis, post: 455771, member: 7154 wrote: What kind of Utility Easement is a DUE? I have never seen a DUE before.
Dedicated Utility Easement????
Drainage & Utility
Stacy Carroll, post: 455774, member: 150 wrote: Drainage & Utility
That makes sense in my area it is common to have it as D.E. & U.E.
