Jim Bob has 200 acres of wetland type property. He lives out of state and wants to get rid of it. He decides to transfer it to the state. The state hires a surveyor to do a survey to their standards, which includes painting lines. After the plat is delivered, Jim Bob backs out and reimburses the state for the survey. All this happened last fall.
This week, Jim Bob gets me out there to investigate getting an easement from his neighbors, because the property is landlocked, but at one place is only 70 feet from the center of the public road. A neighbor has been "letting" his entire family hunt on Jim Bob's land and there are several substantial deer stands on his property. There is no paint on this disputed line. There is no ribbon on this disputed line. There are no pins on this disputed line. The best I could tell, there is no evidence of anything on the north half of the west line, and the north line. There is another property line nearby that has ribbon. I don't doubt that the deer hunting neighbors may have pulled the ribbon down and pulled the pins up, but they certainly did not take the paint off the trees. I told Jim Bob that he needed to call the state and ask them what exactly he was supposed to get for the money he paid for that survey. On his plat, there are only two found corners on the entire 200 acres, and they are on the east end. Everything else on the survey was set.
But wait, there's more.
After getting back the office I decided to pull some deeds and see how this surveyor came up with what he did. The deed reference he put on his plat is the same as the deed reference on the tax card. This deed describes property that is about 8 miles south. There is no reference on the plat to this description being wrong. There is no reference on the plat to there being a problem.
There may be some fur flying before all this is over with.
Interesting story. Too bad the survey wasn't taken even half as serious as deer hunters get about their turf and hunting prospects...:D
But, Judge, eight miles is a minuscule error when you consider the million miles the satellite signals traveled to our GPS devices.
Holy Cow, post: 455692, member: 50 wrote: But, Judge, eight miles is a minuscule error when you consider the million miles the satellite signals traveled to our GPS devices.
I know enough about this other surveyor to know he didn't get the total station out of the truck. This was all done with RTK GPS. I told Jim Bob that he needs to talk to the state about this, because if he paid for a survey with the lines painted, he should get one. If I have to resurvey this property, I'm starting over from scratch.
I guess someone (you?) needs to dial up the surveyor.
I assume a state preferred contractor would possess all types of insurance.
Alvin Tostick, post: 455697, member: 13000 wrote: I guess someone (you?) needs to dial up the surveyor.
I assume a state preferred contractor would possess all types of insurance.
I'm not calling the surveyor and I told Jim Bob to not call the surveyor yet, since he had no direct contract with the surveyor.
Tommy Young, post: 455699, member: 703 wrote: I'm not calling the surveyor .....
Why not?
Oklahoma particularly stresses that it is a surveyor's duty to call the other surveyor when a discrepancy is found.
I usually start with an 'education letter' that gives them an out (should the choose the high road). It sounds like there is history here, but I would encourage you to start there. A dirt bag will show his true colors in the end and your actions will make discipline more likely...
D Bendell, post: 455686, member: 12975 wrote: Interesting story. Too bad the survey wasn't taken even half as serious as deer hunters get about their turf and hunting prospects...:D
Can't wait to see how this is going to end up.
With respect to deer hunters and "their" turf, I could write a short story about them during the development stages of Palm Coast, Florida. Them boy's take their hunting seriously. 😎
How well does the plat fit the property 8 miles south?
Norman Oklahoma, post: 455704, member: 9981 wrote:
Why not?Oklahoma particularly stresses that it is a surveyor's duty to call the other surveyor when a discrepancy is found.
I should have added "yet" to that statement. At some point I'm sure I will. Right now we are in the very early stages of this.
Tommy Young, post: 455715, member: 703 wrote: I should have added "yet" to that statement. At some point I'm sure I will. Right now we are in the very early stages of this.
It will be an interesting read when more info comes to light, keep us posted.
I've seen a few time in Oklahoma where a piece a property gets "located" in error by six miles due to the fact that townships are six miles 'square'. The error is usually traced back to someone either "fat thumbing" a keyboard by one number...or someone that has a terminal case of "cranial rectumitis". 😉
I recently put in a request to the DOT for highway plans and section corner data to help with my boundary survey. They did a great job and responded the same day. As I looked at the wealth of information, it made no sense. Eventually I realized it related to section 17, not 19, and was one township too far west. It was my mistake, not theirs. It was a tad bit embarrassing to admit my mistake and ask for help with the correct section. They fixed me right up once again with no comment.
Tommy Young, post: 455676, member: 703 wrote: The state hires a surveyor to do a survey to their standards...
"To Their Standards"? maybe they just did that... then you have a bigger problem
Why would you think that some state employee working for some state agency with no real budget would think of getting a survey.
I have found that most state agencies will use tax information and make reference to the last known deed before they will consider having an actual survey made for a title transfer.
:manhole:
In California they have/had "higher standards" for these kind of acquisitions. Granted it is just a check list, the agent probably does not know much about what they are looking at.
Tommy Young, post: 455699, member: 703 wrote: I'm not calling the surveyor and I told Jim Bob to not call the surveyor yet, since he had no direct contract with the surveyor.
The surveyor knows what went down. The state agency or attorney probably doesn't have a clue and will enter CYA mode.
Adjoiners know that they can take advantage of out of state Jim. They might have declared it ancestral hunting grounds at this point.
From my experience as to wetlands hunting land , they have a low value. If you are not getting a tax break or credit of some kind and no lease fees then it is burdensome to the owner. Because of the value, the buyer and sellers usually use the tax description for sales to avoid the cost of a survey.
I agree that you need to slow down and make sure that you get some money up front because you discovered the problem.
Peter Ehlert, post: 455727, member: 60 wrote: "To Their Standards"? maybe they just did that... then you have a bigger problem
We've conducted 150 or so surveys by those same standards. I could almost recite them in my sleep. I know them better than I know the Standards of Practice by the Tennessee surveyors board.
paden cash, post: 455718, member: 20 wrote: It will be an interesting read when more info comes to light, keep us posted.
I've seen a few time in Oklahoma where a piece a property gets "located" in error by six miles due to the fact that townships are six miles 'square'. The error is usually traced back to someone either "fat thumbing" a keyboard by one number...or someone that has a terminal case of "cranial rectumitis". 😉
That is understandable. But in this situation, the description calls for "Tennessee State Highway #" and certain county roads.
A Harris, post: 455732, member: 81 wrote: Why would you think that some state employee working for some state agency with no real budget would think of getting a survey.
I have found that most state agencies will use tax information and make reference to the last known deed before they will consider having an actual survey made for a title transfer.
:manhole:
The State of Tennessee does not acquire land without a survey, even if it is gifted to them, they will order a survey, although it may be after it's been conveyed to them.