I'm from Florida and down here just about every real estate transaction that has a mortgage attached is required to have a boundary survey done. Does anyone know why we do this? I have heard that some states do not do this and instead do ILC, Mortgage Inpections or nothing at all. Why is this practice not uniform across the different states?
Because realtors do not want anything to hold up closings.
I believe that Matt is correct in most cases, but there are some good realtors out there. I wish it was required here, even though it sounds self serving. I have seen too many cases in the past few months where the purchasers have been harmed by not knowing where their boundaries are, and they were misrepresented by the realtors when they purchased the property.
I believe it is driven by the banks. I surveyed in Nebraska from 1975 to 1990 and we did a lot of them; the mortgage company was our client. I moved to Washington in 1990 and the banks had inspections done, but they don't care if you are a surveyor...:-S
I think we should do it more like Canada: LSTA of BC
mattsib79, post: 330318, member: 1138 wrote: Because realtors do not want anything to hold up closings.
In Florida, I don't think the realtors have any say in the matter. They just order them because someone tells them that they need it to close.
From what I have put together, it appears that the various mortgage underwriters in the State of Florida (whoever they are), want all of the collateralized properties that they mortgage to have a title insurance policy with no B2 exception for survey. The title insurers won't do that without a survey, so you end up with a de facto requirement of having a survey on every mortgaged property. What I don't understand is that most of these mortgages get sold to Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, so you would figure that the mortgage underwriting standard would be more uniform accross the country. Why not?
Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 330323, member: 6939 wrote: ...so you would figure that the mortgage underwriting standard would be more uniform accross the country. Why not?
I suspect it's because we're more trustworthy than Floridians. In 2010 more than 27% of the fraudulent or misrepresented loans in the U.S. were on property in Florida.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2011/05/09/americas-worst-states-for-mortgage-fraud/
Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 330315, member: 6939 wrote: I'm from Florida and down here just about every real estate transaction that has a mortgage attached is required to have a boundary survey done. Does anyone know why we do this? I have heard that some states do not do this and instead do ILC, Mortgage Inpections or nothing at all. Why is this practice not uniform across the different states?
There's no requirement for any kind of boundary survey for real estate closings in Utah. Some buyers want them some times or a bank maybe. The real estate agents and title folks try to avoid them at all cost. I've even done them and had them blown off by title companies. They can survey much more accurately on their table tops on paper than I can do them in the field. There is only Record for these folks, Measured doesn't apply. Measured to them just means we don't know what we are doing as surveyors. It a VERY SAD state of affairs. ANY variance in the measured from the record that they decide to recognize requires one of several types of Quit-Claim Deeds before they will close. Much easier to just get rid of the survey (Don't Do It!). The SUPREME survey in my county is the Recorders map where all the distances from the record deeds are placed along the boundary lines. Any variance from this 100 year plus virtual paper record and STUFF hits the fan! With this map in place and free there is no need to have surveyors mucking things up. The second sad state of affairs is there are surveyors that muck things up badly, can't find a boundary in plain sight! The only resolution these guys offer is rebar and caps appearing where there has NEVER been a boundary established, usually along a boundary established for over 50 years. AND THEN there is the new GIS................................
You would think there would be very few unsurveyed properties left in Florida.
LRDay, post: 330326, member: 571 wrote: The real estate agents and title folks try to avoid them at all cost. I've even done them and had them blown off by title companies.
I have read that Fannie Mae (and probably Freddy Mac) require that the title insurance policy must have any B2 exception for survey removed. Are title insurers in Utah willing to do this with no survey to review? Are they just willing to accept the risk? Again there are only a handful of title insurance underwriters in this country. You would figure their standards would be more uniform throughout the country.
James Fleming, post: 330325, member: 136 wrote: I suspect it's because we're more trustworthy than Floridians.
THAT statement coming from Washington DC??? LMAO, 😉
Bow Tie,
Different parts of the country have drastically different levels of participation in the Fannie Mae-Freddie Mac game. Not trying to be political, but it seems to me to be a red state vs blue state type of thing. Sort of like the thread yesterday on who uses what cuss words in their Tweets.
Then there is the part where the buyer really wants to know where the extents of their property is before they sign on the bottom line and fork out all that money....
I think it should be required every time a property is sold. There would be more control in the ground, more work for honest surveyors, and people would actually know what they were buying. I am guessing there would also be less boundary line disputes.
If the owner would have it surveyed when they put their home up for sale, they could show prospective buyers their corners, and the survey plat could be part of the paperwork in the sales transfer. There would be no rush to have the survey done by closing.
I would love it if it became required, but as said above, for selfish reasons.
The libertarian in me knows this is a private matter between private parties, so there's no reason for it to be a law/requirement.
Everyone handing over a couple hundred thousand dollars should want to know the boundaries of what they're buying, but they tend to lose interest when they find out it's going to cost another $1-2K.
As soon as it became mandatory to have a boundary survey for real estate sales, boundary surveys would become commoditized (even more than they are now) and the price would be driven down. Quality would follow price and the residential boundary survey would become a defacto mortgage survey with corners comped by a button pushing "party chief " who found two pins and rotated the plat/deed bearings and distances onto them. Welcome to Pin Cushion City.
Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 330323, member: 6939 wrote: In Florida, I don't think the realtors have any say in the matter.....
They may be obliged to conform with the existing law, but they have far more lobbying power to form the laws than surveyors do.
I expect that if you look into the history of your Florida law you will find that it was the Title Companies who where the driving force behind it, not Surveyors.
LRDay, post: 330326, member: 571 wrote: There's no requirement for any kind of boundary survey for real estate closings in Utah. Some buyers want them some times or a bank maybe. The real estate agents and title folks try to avoid them at all cost. I've even done them and had them blown off by title companies. They can survey much more accurately on their table tops on paper than I can do them in the field. There is only Record for these folks, Measured doesn't apply. Measured to them just means we don't know what we are doing as surveyors. It a VERY SAD state of affairs. ANY variance in the measured from the record that they decide to recognize requires one of several types of Quit-Claim Deeds before they will close. Much easier to just get rid of the survey (Don't Do It!). The SUPREME survey in my county is the Recorders map where all the distances from the record deeds are placed along the boundary lines. Any variance from this 100 year plus virtual paper record and STUFF hits the fan! With this map in place and free there is no need to have surveyors mucking things up. The second sad state of affairs is there are surveyors that muck things up badly, can't find a boundary in plain sight! The only resolution these guys offer is rebar and caps appearing where there has NEVER been a boundary established, usually along a boundary established for over 50 years. AND THEN there is the new GIS................................
It's much the same in Arizona...
JPH, post: 330368, member: 6636 wrote: I would love it if it became required, but as said above, for selfish reasons.
The libertarian in me knows this is a private matter between private parties, so there's no reason for it to be a law/requirement.
Everyone handing over a couple hundred thousand dollars should want to know the boundaries of what they're buying, but they tend to lose interest when they find out it's going to cost another $1-2K.
Isn't that strange? But they don't mind handing over 3.5% to a Realtor? Never understood it...
JPH, post: 330368, member: 6636 wrote: I would love it if it became required, but as said above, for selfish reasons.
The libertarian in me knows this is a private matter between private parties, so there's no reason for it to be a law/requirement.
Everyone handing over a couple hundred thousand dollars should want to know the boundaries of what they're buying, but they tend to lose interest when they find out it's going to cost another $1-2K.
It protects the public in my eyes if a seller had to show the boundaries of what s/he is selling. Adding that cost onto the sale of the house, is a drop in the bucket. One would have to come from a protection of the public perspective to get anything going on something like this. (or maybe it's unconstitutional...I don't know, I just think it's a good idea)
Tom Adams, post: 330392, member: 7285 wrote: It protects the public in my eyes if a seller had to show the boundaries of what s/he is selling. Adding that cost onto the sale of the house, is a drop in the bucket. ..
When the cost of a title insurance premium is greater than the cost of a (proper) survey you will see a lot more surveys being done. For now it is more economic for the public to buy title insurance, and for the insurance company to pay off now and then.
