At a trial I attended recently the Developer/Landowner proudly testified that "I bought and paid for those property pins and me and my brother set them." His pins were 20 degrees and up to a 180 feet out of position in relationship to his Subdivision Plat. He obviously had no knowledge of magnetic declination and slope/horizontal distance. His surveying probably cost the Plaintiff and Defendant over $100,000 each in legal fees over a boundary line dispute. I think the Developer should be held liable for fraud and surveying without a licence. Others say there's nothing you can do because it's his property, he can do what he wants on it. Anybody have any similar experience?
What did the Judge/Jury decide with respect to the boundary location?
I'd love to see more details on this.?ÿ Was the dispute between lot owners within his subdivision or between his subdivision and an adjoiner??ÿ
Its been several years ago but I went to court over a case with a local state park.?ÿ It took about 10 years before it went to trial and the adjoiner to the state park was his own lawyer, although he had no law degree.?ÿ When he testified, he admitted he had surveyed the line him self and mine was wrong.?ÿ I just shook my head in disbelief.?ÿ The really crazy thing is this guy would get examples of court documents and write very professional looking documents.?ÿ He actually appealed where the case would be heard all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court, who kicked it back to the county court.?ÿ When he was actually in court though he job as a self appointed lawyer fell apart.?ÿ
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In the above example I would say people could sue the developer if they set their own corners and it created problems.?ÿ There is nothing wrong with someone setting a bunch or rebar in the ground, but when you start selling them off, I would say that is when a problem occurs.
It was before just the Judge. He hasn't ruled yet. The trial was three months ago, so he maybe consternating a bit on his decision.
The dispute was between lot owners in his subdivision. It was a dispute between weather found pins or Plat measurements determined the location of one of the lots.
If he gave them warranty deeds I would think he's liable to both and should at least pay legal fees for both parties. Either fraud or practicing without a license should be enough for punitive damages in addition to legal fees.
He clearly misled both parties by trying to save some money on doing things correctly.?ÿ Here, the Register of Deeds would not record a deed unless there was a recorded subdivision plat already on file that had been performed and signed by a licensed land surveyor.?ÿ How did the deeds get recorded in the first place??ÿ Part of the blame goes on the recording entity.
I think this is the thread where the case was first brought up:
https://surveyorconnect.com/community/surveying-geomatics/original-corners/
Well, it's basically on the owners for not having a survey done by a true professional prior to buying the properties.?ÿ I would expect the judge to side with the monuments except where they land in an adjoiner's property.
For a few bucks you can find someone to sign anything. Evidently someone else found a Surveyor to sign his Plat for him because he had no idea who the signing Surveyor was.
If the buyers saw the boundaries defined by the corner pins he set, and the developer represented those as the corners of the lots they were buying, then I would vote to uphold the pins regardless of the plat.?ÿ If the boundaries were not readily visible or pointed out then the irons are goat stakes.
If the buyers saw the boundaries defined by the corner pins he set, and the developer represented those as the corners of the lots they were buying, then I would vote to uphold the pins regardless of the plat.?ÿ If the boundaries were not readily visible or pointed out then the irons are goat stakes.
While [possibly] overly simplified (a excellent job BTW), that pretty much sums up a huge body of text books, court decisions, common law (and sense). There are obviously exceptions to that generalized view, but ASSUMING interior lots (among other things),?ÿ?ÿI would probably vote with you! I look forward to reading the Judge's [complete] ruling, but I wouldn't bet a dollar either way at this point.
Loyal
Depends on the deed language in part. Had a subdivision where developer set pins but the deeds he gave called lot and block, and called angle and distance to set iron pipes. In that case the judge agreed the pipes are it.
I reviewed the old thread.
I will try to summarize the important points.
Subdivision Plat executed in 1971. It was based on the record dimensions of a Government Lot on the original GLO Plat.
Subdivider/Unlicensed Surveyor set his Goat Stakes* in 2002 because pre-existing Lot owners asked to be shown their Lot lines.
Goat Stakes have two problems: 1) They vary by a large amount from the Subdivision Plat in both direction and distance and 2) some are set outside of the Subdivision boundary.
The Goat Stakes were set on lines that the Subdivider had no ownership interest in.
*I'm calling them Goat Stakes for convenience.?ÿ I am not intending to express an opinion as whether they control in this post.
Sounds like a Jeff Lucas article!
Subdivision Plat executed in 1971.
Subdivider/Unlicensed Surveyor set his Goat Stakes* in 2002?ÿbecause pre-existing Lot owners asked
Critical info not in above discussion.?ÿ I was thinking he set pins before sales.?ÿ
There must have been wood stakes, t-posts or something to guide people at the time. How did they have any idea where their lot was when buying it?
There's no way an unlicensed person with no experience should be able to set the physical boundaries and use that information as part of the conveyance of title to land.?ÿ I mean the physical corners are what the average person goes by and understands in terms of defining their limits of ownership.?ÿ The controlling data on the plats is meant for us to be able to effectively layout the corners on the ground.
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There's no way an unlicensed person with no experience should be able to set the physical boundaries and use that information as part of the conveyance
Dave has pointed out the pins were set long after the plat and conveyances in this case.
If the owner/developer had set durable monuments and sold lots with representation that those monuments defined the boundaries, then yes he should be able.
I remember reading that one a while back. I didn't realize it was the same story. Thanks!