As it stands now, if you have no state license, you have no CFedS certification.
LOL yeah real strong presences.
Well, actually
You seem to forget that Florida has a balanced budget requirement. They have stolen all they can from education, now they are actually going to have to get rid of some of government because we both know neither party will touch entitlements. Surveyors in Florida played the "us four and no more" game for too many years. More retired than came into the profession. During fat times, the state could afford to keep the board, but these are not fat times. So, because of the short sightedness of FSMS and the Florida Surveyors who thought the years of 10 crew companies would never go away, they are in the sad position of being a money loser. Such is life. I predicted this 6 years ago. And everyone said I was crazy, it would never happen. Sure didn't take long for "never" to get here.
As for FSMS being caught off guard, that is a falsehood. Andy himself said there was talk of it, but all blew it off as not going to happen. They chose to ignore it. Just like a bunch of ostriches with their heads in the sand. Well, other groups, like the barbers, did see it coming. They were prepared and they get to stay on. Oh, and your saying that they did not make changes is wrong, two professions that had THEIR act together are still licensed while the surveyors are whining and scrambling to try to save their bacon. My fear is that it will be too little, too late. Even if FSMS could somehow get the legislature to go along with privatization, that will not happen before this legal change goes into effect. And anyone who calls themselves a surveyor during the in between time will have to be grandfathered unless that private board wants to start out with lawsuits for violating people's right to free trade.
Yeah, the Florida Surveyors are definitely about to reap what they have sown. They did not want to invest in the field guys any more than to get the stuff they needed from them and now they will have to accept them as equals.
All it will take are a couple of bills and/or court cases to change that.
Well, actually
Right. it's all our fault. Thanks for your support.
A poem, perhaps excessive, but makes a great point:
Pastor Martin Niemöller
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me -
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
You are correct, it is our fault.
They did not speak up when some wanted to exclude field guys because they did not have a degree. They did not speak up when they saw others not putting any more time into field guys than necessary to train them to push this button to get the data. They did not speak up when they saw that the education model was not replacing surveyors as fast as they were retiring/ dying. And now there are not enough of them to speak loud enough to stop the legislature from killing off the profession because really, they have been too quiet for too long. The public has no idea what surveyors do, so the public will never even miss us. The lawyers will write the deeds, the title companies will have the owner certify that he has made no improvement and the engineers will do their own topo for a portion of the fee we collected. And none of them will be dumb enough to let the public forget all that they do for the public.
Well, actually
Are you just making this up as you go?
Surveyors in Florida played the "us four and no more" game for too many years. More retired than came into the profession.
FACTS:
Reeeealllly?
Per June 1996 news letter: 2,492 active surveyors in Florida
Per March 2001 news letter: 2750 active surveyors in Florida
The current number is around 2,800, although the board website says 4,300
Whether you want to accept 2,800, which was a number thrown out by FSMS, or 4,300 from the BOR, that’s an increase, not a decrease, as you falsely claim. Oh, and if you think there is some shortage of surveyors in Florida, you're sadly mistaken. We made it through the 2006-2007 peak fine, and now there's a complete glut ...
During fat times, the state could afford to keep the board, but these are not fat times. So, because of the short sightedness of FSMS and the Florida Surveyors who thought the years of 10 crew companies would never go away, they are in the sad position of being a money loser.
FACTS:
Well, first, the numbers of crews a company runs has nothing to do with how much the state collects in licensing fees. However, you’re main flaw in reasoning is that this is all about money. Do you have any proof that the licensing fees (both personal and business and fines) do not support the board? I haven’t seen any. The board members make $50 per day they are active, it’s not like they are stuffing their pockets. Secondly, if it were about money, the proposed bill would be about raising licensing fees, right? This has nothing to do with money, it’s about the Republican idea that deregulation is somehow going to increase the number of people who want body wraps, hair braided, and surveys, and "get people back to work".
As for FSMS being caught off guard, that is a falsehood. Andy himself said there was talk of it, but all blew it off as not going to happen.
FACT:
Just to be clear, I believe Andy said the first time he heard about it was a week ago, when it was randomly mentioned at a dinner ….
Oh, and your saying that they did not make changes is wrong, two professions that had THEIR act together are still licensed while the surveyors are whining and scrambling to try to save their bacon.
FACT:
According to Ray Niles, who was at the meeting, it was known that no further amendments would be made as a result of the public comments (AND NONE WERE). The amendments you speak of where made before the public comments began …
My fear is that it will be too little, too late.
FACT:
There is no companion bill in the Senate, and the time for introducing new bills has passed. There is little to no chance of this bill passing both houses during this session. It’s more likely a feeler and the real deregulation battle will be fought next session.
…
This has nothing to do with degree requirements, employee training, board funding, etc. All you have to do is read the form emails that come back from the republicans on the committee. It’s about DEREGULATION for the sake of DEREUGLATION. Plain and simple, the rest of what you claim is utter nonsense that you seem to making up as you go.
GO GATORS!
Does it hurt your head when your tin foil hat gets too tight?
Before George Washington left the Presidency he made a farewell address to the country, he warned the country about the rise of political parties:
Washington goes on to acknowledge the fact that parties are sometimes beneficial in promoting liberty in monarchies, but argues that political parties must be restrained in a popularly elected government because of their tendency to distract the government from their duties, create unfounded jealousies amongst groups and regions, raise false alarms amongst the people, promote riots and insurrection, and provide foreign nations and interests access to the government where they can impose their will upon the country.
Washington wrote about this 200 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell_Address
Well, actually
FYI Pseudo, Deregulation and decertification are two very different things. Is it a coincidence that 4 of the Legislators that voted for this are contractors? If their certifications were up there, do you think they would've left it in the language?
This is much deeper than just a casual discussion of, ahem, deregulation ...
You are correct, it is our fault.
You seem really hung up on the degree thing, which in my opinion is a very welcomed upgrade to the profession. Were you denied a license by Florida, or something? And as for those poor employees you weep for, college is open to everyone. Florida was very fair in the way they implemented the degree requirement, over a period of 12 years or so, with extensions offered to be "grandfathered" in. Everyone who took jobs with surveyors since then either knew, or should have known, what they were getting into. UF offers distance learning and has a few off campus survey program locations around the state, so it's not like those poor, poor crew cheif are being blocked from becoming PSMs, they have plenty of options.
Well, actually
> This has nothing to do with degree requirements, employee training, board funding, etc. All you have to do is read the form emails that come back from the republicans on the committee. It’s about DEREGULATION for the sake of DEREUGLATION. Plain and simple, the rest of what you claim is utter nonsense that you seem to making up as you go.
>
> GO GATORS!
Precisely!
Rick Perry's vendetta on TPBPLS
From my research, the reason Rick Perry has it in for the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying (TBPLS) is because they did not revoke any licenses because of the elevation debacle in Beaumont that cost several families their homes & property after the recent Hurricanes. Those affected vehemently complained (rightfully so) and as they say, stuff rolls downhill. Everybody knows there’s a big problem with subsidence in the gulf (-1 ft) and that the sea level is rising. So why these guys didn’t even use a “cheap” $1000 promark2 L1 receiver and tie in to a NGS adjusted vertical monument instead of running a level loop off of an antiquated bench mark like these surveyor(s) did is beyond prudent professional judgment.
Your damn right I am hung up on it
It is killing the profession. There is a reason that Florida and Texas, both states leading the demand for degrees, are looking at getting rid of the profession. From UF's website "Half of Florida’s licensed professionals (1,500) will retire in the next ten years." Quite simply put, Florida cannot afford this model of licensing. They could not 6 years ago and they cannot now. Do you really think that the program at UF will provide that many new bodies. Your numbers are padded by guys who have retired but keep their license active. You and I both know this happens.
The bottom line is that this will happen. The teachers thought they beat off the merit pay last year, and if their union cannot stop that, what makes you think FSMS has the political clout to kill this?
You can call me whatever the heck you want, I am just standing here telling you "the king is nekkid".
> My advice to all Florida "Surveyors" is to start thinking about moving to another State.
good luck with that
Your damn right I am hung up on it
> It is killing the profession. There is a reason that Florida and Texas, both states leading the demand for degrees, are looking at getting rid of the profession.
Hardly. MI has had a degree requirement since the 70's, and even in our dire straits, this kind of stuff hasn't even blipped on the legislative radar. The degree requirement has nothing to do with this; imo, the converse could be argued.
Yeah well
A causal read of Fema info on elevation certificates, indicates that a determination that you are above a base flood elevation IS NO GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL NOT FLOOD.
Your damn right I am hung up on it
Yes, it's the degree requirements are the reason that the state government is targeting Florida and Texas. What failed logic. Both states front on the Gulf of Mexico, too, I guess by Georgia Surveyor logic it could be the Gulf of Mexico's fault.
Na, it's more likely that both states elected highly conservative whack jobs to run the show ... they went through the list and circled the occupations that didn't sound very important to them, and the occupations that them and their buddies don't work in ... it was probably just that simple of a process ...
Rick Perry's vendetta on TBPLS
> From my research, the reason Rick Perry has it in for the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying (TBPLS) is because they did not revoke any licenses because of the elevation debacle in Beaumont that cost several families their homes & property after the recent Hurricanes.
News flash! This just in! The determination of elevations in the State of Texas isn't land surveying as defined by the licensing act and so isn't subject to the regulation of the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying. The TBPLS can't revoke your license for spitting on a public sidewalk, for painting your house purple, or any number of activities that they are not authorized to regulate, including the determination of elevations.
Your damn right I am hung up on it
Here's some more FACTS:
Surveyor's licensed by year in Florida:
1982: 67
1987: 50
1988: 67
1996: 56
2001 = Degree requiment goes in ...
2009: 78
2010: 55
... yeah, that degree requirement sure killed interest in the profession, good call GeorgiaSuveyor....
Your damn right I am hung up on it
> Na, it's more likely that both states elected highly conservative whack jobs to run the show ... they went through the list and circled the occupations that didn't sound very important to them, and the occupations that them and their buddies don't work in ... it was probably just that simple of a process ...
That is certainly true of Texas. The coordinated assault on licensed professions like land surveying is just part of the dimwit agenda of that crew. In their idiot view of the world, if only there were no regulation of anything, everything would suddenly be grand. Somehow the problems that are the reason by regulations exist would just magically ... disappear.
