Rick Perry's vendetta on TBPLS
Kent, surely you jest… such myopic views are the reason Perry’s got the TBPLS in his crosshairs.
The Texas act clearly states that elevations are part of Land Surveying, TBPLS just doesn’t “see” it that way!
The Texas Land Surveying Act for your perusal:
OCCUPATIONS CODE CHAPTER 1071. LAND SURVEYORS
OCCUPATIONS CODE
TITLE 6. REGULATION OF ENGINEERING, ARCHITECTURE, LAND SURVEYING,
AND RELATED PRACTICES SUBTITLE C. REGULATION OF LAND SURVEYING AND RELATED PRACTICES CHAPTER 1071. LAND SURVEYORS
SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS
Sec. 1071.001. SHORT TITLE. This chapter may be cited as the Professional Land Surveying Practices Act. Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1421, Sec. 1, eff. June 1, 2003.
Sec. 1071.002. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(6) "Professional surveying" means the practice of land, boundary, or property surveying or other similar professional practices. The term includes:
(A) performing any service or work the adequate performance of which involves applying special knowledge of the principles of geodesy, mathematics, related applied and physical sciences, and relevant laws to the measurement or location of sites, points, lines, angles, elevations, natural features, and existing man-made works in the air, on the earth ’s surface, within underground workings, and on the beds of bodies of water...
The 4 year degree requirement
> The natural and expected degradation in quality of work benefits who? Follow the money, folks.
>
>
> It benefits the corporations.
> Who are paying off our governor.
You think that the markup a licensed surveyor will charge versus an unlicensed surveyor is enough to justify paying off the government to do away with licenses?
Yeah well
Dane, the FEMA Elevation Cert’s which were part of this terrible situation were just one item in this the huge problem. Texas riparian law, which is derived from the preceding Spanish Laws, allows once private property to become “state” property after the mean “higher” tide line moves. Even in the event of a storm, this principle is still invoked and hundreds of beach houses and the underling property reverted back to the state of Texas after the recent series of hurricanes.
This thread is full of paranoia.
Rick Perry's vendetta on TBPLS
> Kent, surely you jest… such myopic views are the reason Perry’s got the TBPLS in his crosshairs.
Mike, I'm startled that you are apparently unaware of how professional surveying is defined by statute. The determination of elevations is not professional surveying.
> Sec. 1071.002. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
> (6) "Professional surveying" means the practice of land, boundary, or property surveying or other similar professional practices. The term includes:
> (A) performing any service or work the adequate performance of which involves applying special knowledge of the principles of geodesy, mathematics, related applied and physical sciences, and relevant laws to the measurement or location of sites, points, lines, angles, elevations, natural features, and existing man-made works in the air, on the earth ’s surface, within underground workings, and on the beds of bodies of water...
You're being too cute in neglecting to reproduce the rest of the definition that qualifies all of those activities. If you did that intentionally, that's simply dishonest.
So, do I have to copy how the statute actually defines professional surveying or will you correct your omission?
Rick Perry's vendetta on TBPLS
Okay, here is why the TBPLS has no authority to regulate the determination of elevations for flood hazard certificates. The TBPLS regulates what is called "professional surveying".
Professional surveying, in turn is defined by Texas statute as follows:
"Professional surveying" means the practice of land, boundary, or property surveying or other similar professional practices. The term includes:
(A) performing any service or work the adequate performance of which involves applying special knowledge of the principles of geodesy, mathematics, related applied and physical sciences, and relevant laws to the measurement or location of sites, points, lines, angles, elevations, natural features, and existing man-made works in the air, on the earth's surface, within underground workings, and on the beds of bodies of water to determine areas and volumes
for:
(i) locating real property boundaries;
(ii) platting and laying out land and subdivisions of land; or
(iii) preparing and perpetuating maps, record plats, field note records, easements, and real property descriptions that represent those surveys;
and
(B) consulting, investigating, evaluating, analyzing, planning, providing an expert surveying opinion or testimony, acquiring survey data, preparing technical reports, and mapping to the extent those acts are performed in connection with acts described by this subdivision.
So, in other words, the only case in which the "measurement of elevations" is within the definition of professional surveying is when that measurement of elevations is performed for
(i) locating real property boundaries;
(ii) platting and laying out land and subdivisions of land; or
(iii) preparing and perpetuating maps, record plats, field note records, easements, and real property descriptions that represent those surveys;
An elevation certificate involves absolutely none of those and so the determination of elevations in connection with it is not subject to the regulation of the TBPLS. If you don't like that fact, you need to broaden the definition of professional surveying as regulated in Texas. It's that simple.
Rick Perry's vendetta on TBPLS
Kent, I vehemently resent your innuendo that I’ve purposely skewed the posting of the act. You should come off your arrogant platform and realize that your opinions are like sphincters…
http://www.txls.state.tx.us/04_act_rules/2009_act.pdf
BTW, several TBPLS members (past & present) that I’ve spoken with say that elevations are under the auspices of board regulation and that TBPLS needs to regulate them accordingly.
Kent
Please take into account that I might not know what I'm talking about but B is not a subset of A, right? What does the part of that subdivision say before it splits off to A & B? Is it because "similar professional practices" doesn't include anything but boundary, in your opinion? "Survey data" seems like it might include elevations, but that's just me.
Steve
You see it exactly as the Governor and just about everybody else in Texas reads this law.
Plus there are numerous instances around bodies of water, where the boundary line is an elevation.
Steve
What do I win?
Steve
A trip to Texas or what's in the box Carol Merril is standing by.
Steve
We got flipped off by a Texas you-know-what-hole today ;-).
He was swung around us on the left shoulder as we were changing lanes so that he's passing before we get out of the number one. He did it twice (must've stopped for something) so we honked and got the waving one finger salute. Well quit driving like an impatient jerk.
"No more Presidents from Texas." -friend who grew up in Texas.
Rick Perry's vendetta on TBPLS
> Kent, I vehemently resent your innuendo that I’ve purposely skewed the posting of the act.
Oh, it wasn't an innuendo. It looked entirely purposeful to me that you declined to actually reproduce what the act says, cutting it off as you did where you did. As may be seen, the full definition shows that the measurement of elevations only falls within the definition of professional surveying in the three cases specified by the statute. That is what Texas law actually says. End of report.
Steve
I should just say no comment, having two parents that grew up in Arizona. Texas was considered in my family as a "all hat and no cattle" place. Austin, I understand is entirely different from the stereotypical Texas, however. The only real experience I have with Texas other than the Dallas airport is when my wife and I had to stop in Amarillo and go to the emergency room because she was having an asthma attack and needed a breathing treatment. The barren, dusty environment was purely coincidental, I'm sure.
Kent
> Please take into account that I might not know what I'm talking about but B is not a subset of A, right?
No. Obviously A and B are equal parts of the defintion. One is not subordinate to the other. If one were subordinate, the numbering would reflect that.
Kent
I still don't see how B is a subset of A, but I would say that the statute is about as clearly written as our CA statutes, which eventually were a substantial factor in the paranoid hallucinations that led to one of my original mentors' suicide. I'm not kidding you.
Kent
> I still don't see how B is a subset of A,
B isn't a subset of A. They are co-equal parts, as I said. The law is only unclear if you don't read all of it as written, in the senses that are ordinarily given to the English words and phrases that appear within it.
Kent
Well then, why isn't acquiring survey data and preparing technical reports regarding elevations governed by the statute? It seemed like you were trying to say that the stuff in B was not part of the statute because it didn't fall under the things you highlighted in red that were sub-sections of A. That doesn't make sense to me. Try reading the statute as if A wasn't even there. Would there be any way you would see elevation data being governed by the statute? I would but, let me guess, you don't.
And as we sit here typing, there are still PSM's in the Panhandle doing lot/block work for next to nothing.
Trust me, if they allow unlicensed personnel to perform surveys in Florida (don't see it happening) I know one who will not be participating, can't afford the pay cut.
Kent
Kent, your views and opinions are very myopic and out of touch with reality. If TBPLS doesn’t regulate this area of the Land Surveying profession then how do you explain the following facts:
http://www.txls.state.tx.us/13_board_meeting/pdf_minutes/2009%20February.pdf
Does Rule 663.16 (c) apply to elevation certificates? The general consensus was yes.
Does Rule 663.18 (b) apply to elevation certificates? The general consensus was yes.
Does Rule 663.18 (d) apply to elevation certificates? The general consensus was yes.
Does Rule 663.10 (7) apply to elevation certificates? The general consensus was yes.
http://amerisurv.blogspot.com/2009/02/surveyors-face-penalties-for-elevation.html
Two Southeast Texas surveyors will be penalized for mistakes in determining the elevation of homes in West Jefferson County. KFDM News has learned one of those surveyors is Anthony Leger from SouTex surveyors in Port Arthur. The board has not released the name of the other surveyor but decided they both broke at least five board rules.
http://www.txls.state.tx.us/13_board_meeting/pdf_minutes/2009%20June.pdf
Complaints
Mr. Gilley reported on complaints received regarding elevation certificates. Pursuant to the guidance received from the Board at the last meeting, elevation certificates reviewed contained 4 violations of board rules which results in a reprimand and $6,000 penalty. An Informal Settlement Conference was held, a settlement was made and rejected by 2 surveyors; a third surveyor is currently considering the settlement. All unresolved complaints will go to a formal State Office of Administrative Hearing (SOAH).
Two Southeast Texas surveyors have been reprimanded and assessed a $6,000 fee for filing incorrect elevation figures for two LaBelle-area homes, which flooded in Hurricane Ike's storm surge.
I always thought you were a pompous buffoon, but now the evidence is quite clear.
I believe a formal apology would be the least you could utter under these circumstances!