Solo Operators-What would you propose to this contractor?

Buy the last guy dinner and find out the particulars...

... from HIS perspective

> So if the contractor asked you what it would take for you to provide the same services, what would it be?
It would take him paying my usual rates. This is a two way street. Sure, we would all like to have a client like that, but they aren't going to find a single surveyor to provide all that just anywhere.

Since they seem to providing a stream of work that would pretty much eliminate any unbillable time you should be able to recalc your "usual rates". Add up your salary, your benefits, supplies, equipment cost, etc. for the year and divide by the number of hours you expect to bill for the year.

Be honest with your self. If you can provide all this you should be paid well. You will also need the right hardware and software to keep up. No rattletrap truck, no 5 year old software. They have high expectations and can afford to pay for it.

My guess is that operating solo you are going to bill around $100/hr for your time.

With a successful business going, why throw all your eggs in one basket. I would tell them that my services would be available with a per job contract and on a cost plus basis. If they wish to employe a full time surveyor, then make some recommendations or close your office and take the job, something I would not do. They are wanting the services of a full time surveyor with no overtime or other incidental expenses and also to pass some of their liability on to any Surveyor hungry enough to bite.
jud

Already pretty much did that, that's how I got the above info. He figures he averages ~1200 hrs/yr., more in the summer, less in the winter. Of course, the contractor doesn't want him working for any of the competition in his spare time, so he has a hobby that pays him some extra on the side. I think they want just a flat yearly fee for somebody to take care of it so they don't have to worry about it. Sort of a retainer I guess, with exclusivity.

$2K a day, but then again I don't like construction layout surveying.

A job like that should be done by someone the works directly for the contractor. Make the liability be where is belongs and that is with the contractor. Get a nice salary and benefits and have them provide all the toys needed. Get a deal where you can do surveying on the side that is not related to any of their work if you want to do land surveying.

I did construction surveying as sub for about 10 years. Luckily I only made a couple mistakes for about $10,000 in damages (which I paid). It could have been a lot worse. Looking back I can't believe the risks I took. The best job as a surveyor I ever had was working directly for the owner on a $100 million project. It only lasted a year. The only liability I had was a mistake would have got me terminated. I wouldn't have lost my house and everything else.

The problem with that is that's not what they are asking for. Besides, an employee is going to probably have to be there every day for at least 8 hours. The way it's been working requires quite a bit less than that, assuming you know what you are doing.

Just make sure you cover the risk. A lot of that is who you are dealing with. Are they reasonable and are they going to try and mitigate the damages at the lowest amount? Or are they just going to start the lawsuits? In my case it was some good guys. I admitted the error and we sat down and worked it out. We didn't escalate it into the courts and the $1000 dollar letters from the lawyers. Make sure your insurance will pay and stay within what the insurance will cover for the big ones which you hope will never happen. The layout may only be 1% of the work. If an error is made they will expect you to pay 100% which be be more than the initial cost because the mistake must be removed before replacement.

One of the truest words ever explained to me come from a job super on a Walmart Store. THIS IS A BRUTAL BUSINESS! I made it through that job and didn't make any mistakes. They bankrupted 4 or 5 subs on this job. I never did a Walmart again. Not because I couldn't but because I didn't want to.

what did the last guy make?

So you talked to the guy before, but didn't get the amount he was charging?

How much did the last guy make?

And the exclusivity thing seems like a no-go.

1200 billable hours/year for a solo. That's full time especially with slow winter months.

What the last guy made was between them and him, confidentiality. Doesn't really matter what he charged. Could have been too little, could have been too much, but they were both happy with it. They just want to know what the next guy will charge to do the same thing.

I would tell him 100 plus tax per hour and keep track of my time. Easy.

But talking to the last guy might yield more per hour, be worth a steak dinner.

Beginning to wonder about this thread. Does 2 + 2 equal 4, or is there a bit of a fraction floating around somewhere in the mix?
jud

I would propose 2% of their gross sales instead of a contract amount.

Don't bid it. Sell your skill for what its worth.
Are you going to be able to provide fast, accurate solutions?
Are you going to keep him out of trouble by identifying problems before they become a problem?

Show him these things and explain how you've provided them in the past.

Let him know how he will profit from your involvement.

And then and only then start talking dollars.

If he doesn't complain, you're not asking for enough.

And, and this is a big "and", make sure your contract contains provisions for additional compensation for short notices and after hours calls and callouts.

Make sure those additional compensation coverages are more than just sufficient.

Sounds pretty similar to what I do. Mine is based on working for them by the hour for a couple of years, then averaging that out over a year. Pretty simple. Been with them since 1977, with a 12 year span of working for myself in between. Not ready to retire yet, tho, still be a few more years.

My 2 cents.

Having done most of the items in the scope of services and having dealt with heavy construction, one would think that the previous burned himself out.

They will expect you to be at their beck and call at all hours of the day and night.

A couple of folks mentioned $100 per hour, that's giving it away and no room for any profit whatsoever.

I am solo and I charge that much per hour only when I am doing research at the courthouse or delivering plats.

Be very careful here cuz there aint no going back asking for more.

Your goal here is to be the guy they need, have all of the tools and knowledge they need, but they will have to pay you enough for you to make a profit after all of your expenses. Like equipment payments, vehicle payments, software cost, hardware cost, Insurance payments, fuel costs, etc.,

If not, I would walk in a heartbeat or you will wish you would have.

Randy

> I would tell him 100 plus tax per hour and keep track of my time. Easy.
>
> But talking to the last guy might yield more per hour, be worth a steak dinner.

That wouldn't even come close to covering the exposure out here. I did all of that and more as an employee, it wasn't appreciated. That will never happen again. Let them hire those who claim to have topo'd, paved and geodetic'd. And let the circus begin. My advice for you is don't surrender your autonomy, there's nothing like answering to a jackass laborer with a title. Do your thing, make sure you're paid well and your azalea is covered. Break down all the misc minutiae and make sure it's all accounted for, leave no stone unturned and make sure you clarify what you can and cannot do. If you have an ongoing viable business make sure you can cover your existing clients. If they don't like it let them call the BA, maybe he'll recommend some garden snakes or maybe he'll send them 50 snakes.
Good luck and make sure you cover all your overhead