For the past 2 years I have been the only employee in my firm licensed in a neighboring state. We have never done any work there before. I am pretty much given free rein over there, from start to finish. I find the work, write the proposal, do the work and invoice it. Of course I get help from my boss when needed. I am also licensed in our home state but I really don't use it since my boss takes care of that. I have gotten enough work over there to keep me busy doing ONLY my projects for over a year now but the majority of it was 1 project.
We really haven't made a lot of money over there because my boss wants to bid low to "get our name out over there". I wouldn't say we low ball everyone but we do often underbid much smaller firms (with much less overhead) by several hundred dollars. I do understand what he's trying to do but it doesn't do much for me. On the other hand, we might not get some of the projects if our price was higher because I/we do not have a lot of experience over there. We are building a good reputation though.
Since becoming licensed in both states I have received 2 raises totaling less than $1.00 per hour. In fact, that's all I've gotten in the last 6 years due to the economic downturn. Things have improved over the last 2 years though and we have hired several new employees.So basically, because of my quest for professional advancement, I spend a lot of time out of town working long hours for the same money I could be making back at the home office with the other employees. I'm very grateful for the experience but I feel I should be getting compensated for the time away from my family and all the risk I assume every time I stamp a drawing?
I want to talk to my boss about this but I figured I'd explain myself here first. I'm sure I will hear some good advice and opinions from many of you. Should I be quiet and stick it out over there and gain more experience? Is using my license without much compensation (in order to gain more experience) worth it? Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated?
Compensation is based on your return to the company, not the number of licenses you have.
Sounds to me like you need to start charging more for the out of state work.
GMPLS, post: 325163, member: 8404 wrote: We really haven't made a lot of money over there because my boss wants to bid low to "get our name out over there".
I have seen this strategy used in an attempt to get work before, but I have never seen it result in a healthy business relationship. It is a good way to filter your clients to those interested in price only, if that is what you are into.
The way I look at compensation is by comparing what I make with what I can make elsewhere, if you feel you are underpaid shop the job market a little and see what you can find. Then you have an idea and also leverage if you decide to negotiate for higher pay.
I do realize that Tommy but I think my boss is looking at it as expanding our service area. Is that worth anything? I guess that won't be known until sometime in the future.
One of my main questions is, should I use my license if I'm not going to make anymore than if I didn't use it. Why should I take the risk? Is the experience I'm getting enough to justify that risk without further compensation? I make decent money but I'm getting tired of being away from home.
I know that I'm the only one that can answer most of my questions.
GMPLS, post: 325163, member: 8404 wrote: .....I want to talk to my boss about this.....
It's probably time to talk to your boss about his future plans for himself, his business, and you. You haven't mentioned anything about the going rate in your area and other employment opportunities. And how many qualified applicants for your job are waiting just outside the door.
Asking for a raise just because you haven't had one lately isn't likely to be a winning strategy. Upgrading your situation by changing the dynamic between you and your boss, or by changing bosses, may be.
As far as experience goes I've always found that I get a big dose of it in the first few months of a new job, after that it tails off considerably.
party chef, post: 325173, member: 98 wrote: I have seen this strategy used in an attempt to get work before, but I have never seen it result in a healthy business relationship. It is a good way to filter your clients to those interested in price only, if that is what you are into.
The way I look at compensation is by comparing what I make with what I can make elsewhere, if you feel you are underpaid shop the job market a little and see what you can find. Then you have an idea and also leverage if you decide to negotiate for higher pay.
Well the job market isn't too good around here. It's mostly small firms and one man shows. Everyone has work but nobody is hiring. Like I said in another post, I don't make bad money but I feel I'm going above and beyond here and am starting to wonder if I'm wasting my time.
Top two reasons for disgruntled employees is underpaid and overworked.
The two go together.
I think Norman has his head wrapped around it well.
I try to live in the present, future potential and good will from a boss may be worth something but I can't put it in the bank. If they are going to be fair down the road, they will be fair now.
"We really haven't made a lot of money over there because my boss wants to bid low to "get our name out over there". I wouldn't say we low ball everyone but we do often underbid much smaller firms (with much less overhead) by several hundred dollars. I do understand what he's trying to do"
Well, it certainly sounds like your "boss" has tremendous amounts of business acumen, but zero ethics. He may succeed in his "surveying" endeavors albeit doubtful.
Perhaps used car sales would be a more appropriate profession. :whistle:
Why would you even to want to be associated with this type of nonprofessional business?
I'm not sure how you know you are 'a few hundred dollars under' the others proposing on work. In some States that will get your ticket yanked. It's unethical in all of them if done with knowledge of the other price.
As for the pay issue most of it has been said. Your pay should depend on how much money you make for your boss. It has no tie to what someone else makes either at your firm or elsewhere. If I had an employee tell me they could make more at another firm I'd shake their hand and wish them luck. No hard feelings but I work with Surveyors, not auctioneers.
Part of the reward for attaining and using Professional credentials is moving up the priority ladder. At the bad firms I've worked for they keep the guys who eat the most crap. The good ones hold onto the people who bring value and Professionalism. While many have forgotten already the economy does take a bad turn from time to time. You have to decide if that good will is there. If it is you then decide what it's worth.
Next month I will have 12 years with the same Company. That's a third of my career. We've had good times and bad. I'm still here and I do something new all the time. I could move a few hours west and bring in more money. Then I get to train a new boss and start over on the priority ladder (at the bottom). No thanks. I'll make this work until the next phase of my career. See you guys on the coast in about 14 years...
Good luck, Tom
thebionicman, post: 325201, member: 8136 wrote: I'm not sure how you know you are 'a few hundred dollars under' the others proposing on work. In some States that will get your ticket yanked. It's unethical in all of them if done with knowledge of the other price.
No knowledge of the price beforehand.
Norman speaks correctly with his insight.
I've seen employees that become uncomfortable with their position and their pay and it fosters a resentment between the employee and their boss. From the boss's perspective, he may not be aware of your dissatisfaction. After all, at one time you apparently agreed to work for him at a specific rate.
My point of view nowadays is from the management's point of view, although I don't think you will find anybody else that has as much experience as I as "one of the hourly hired hands". Did it for years. Talk with the boss and find out where you actually fit in with his business model. Although it is just MY opinion; I believe someone that is licensed and capable of maintaining the surveying end of a business should ultimately realize more than just and hourly rate...unless it is a really, really good rate.
Thanks for all of your replies. I guess I will talk to him to explain where I'm at and to see where he's at (and how I fit in with his future plans). I'm in the middle of a huge project now so I'm going to be stuck out of town for awhile, there's nothing I can do about that except finish it. I don't plan on mentioning money except to talk to him about ways to improve profit (including bidding higher on projects).