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Section Corner Certs

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jab5
 jab5
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I have been reading the forum for a while now, but this is the second time I have posted and have thoroughly enjoyed all of the conversation on the various topics. I am not a PLS yet but will be taking my exam soon. I have the following question:

A local city has put out an RFQ for establishing coordinates (local county/city control) on section corners with "Published Corner Certs" on file (400-600). The project also requires that a surveyor to redraft/endorse/re-file the certificates with the coordinates on them. The firm is only expected to field verify the City provided certs/ties, there will be no other research completed by the city or firm.

-Is there significant liability of re-certification of the certificate if all ties are present?

-I have noticed more and more projects like this coming out. Has anyone worked on projects like this for other agencies/municipalities?


 
Posted : March 24, 2014 1:14 pm
vern
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That is an interesting question. What is their purpose for gathering this data? And the better question - who is paying for it in the long run?


 
Posted : March 24, 2014 1:46 pm
jab5
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Purposes:

1. Updating PLSS Corner ties as a seen responsibility to the public.

2. As agencies become more equipped to use GIS as an asset management tool, they would like to keep there PLSS corners (being the basis of there mapping) to be as "accurate" as possible.

3.Aerial Control

The local tax base will be funding the efforts.


 
Posted : March 24, 2014 1:58 pm
vern
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I see. Must be in California.

In Colorado an undertaking such as this would require voter approval, or alternative funding.

Seems like a worthwhile task though and will keep some lucky surveyor busy 4-6 months.


 
Posted : March 24, 2014 2:06 pm
holy-cow
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There are two distinct issues in play here. First, the municipality believes the section corner certifications they have in their possession are correct. Second, it does not matter what the municipality believes to be true because what does matter is what you believe to be true. Therein lies the dilemma.

Surveyor A went out in some year and decided that the corner was at a specific point and either found or set a monument at that point and then provided ties for future surveyors to follow. Surveyor B went out at a different time with a different knowledge base and arrived at a solution different from that of Surveyor A and then provided ties for future surveyors to follow, maybe or maybe not making mention of a difference of opinion with Surveyor A. In our part of the world, there is no entity appointed to make note of the discrepancy in the reports and force a resolution.

A critical issue in your potential contract is how to handle the fairly common situation of arriving onsite to discover the record monument gone along with all but one of the record ties also being gone. One tie is nearly worthless without resurveying the survey for which the corner record was provided as documentation. Another problem is discerning precisely which three or four out of a dozen reference nails/spikes/whatever that appear near the corner. I've seen as many as four different nails driven into the same fence post or power pole by four different surveyors. Why this happens is beyond my reasoning ability. Meanwhile all of the corner records merely say "Z feet NW to magnail in post". WHICH FRIGGIN' ONE!!!!!!!!!


 
Posted : March 24, 2014 3:53 pm

Norman_Oklahoma
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I sounds like the city wants a PLS to sign certs they have prepared without professional supervision. No can do. No doubt they will find someone hungry enough to do it, though.

If they are looking for someone to supervise the city people doing the work, I might be willing to go along under the right circumstances.

Hopefully this doesn't go to the low bidder.


 
Posted : March 24, 2014 6:06 pm
Kevin Samuel
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If I were consulting with this city I would tell them to also request the observation data to collect said coordinates.


 
Posted : March 25, 2014 8:51 am
peter-ehlert
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Two tasks:

> establishing coordinates

> redraft/endorse/re-file the certificates with the coordinates on them.

In my mind no big deal.
Find a monument, tie it into the system, refile with coord data.

a note saying something like "I found this and tied it in, nothing else" would suffice.
they are not asking for a resurvey, just coordinates and a record.


 
Posted : March 25, 2014 9:18 am
Jack Chiles
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Will these certifications have language on them that says something to the effect that "I hereby certify that this is the northwest section corner of Town Ship xx, Range XX, Section 12"?

If so, that should start alarms going off, right?


 
Posted : March 25, 2014 10:07 am
Norm
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It may depend if your standards address corner certificates. Our standards require a complete investigation from time of establishment on a corner certification. A monument record is different. It would simply allow to locate and record the surface monument.


 
Posted : March 25, 2014 10:16 am

bill93
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[USER=8091]@jab5[/USER] I talked to you today, but had not previously made the connection to your posts here or realized the project might be close by.

What became of this project?


 
Posted : July 5, 2017 2:57 pm
thebionicman
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jab5, post: 251656, member: 8091 wrote: I have been reading the forum for a while now, but this is the second time I have posted and have thoroughly enjoyed all of the conversation on the various topics. I am not a PLS yet but will be taking my exam soon. I have the following question:

A local city has put out an RFQ for establishing coordinates (local county/city control) on section corners with "Published Corner Certs" on file (400-600). The project also requires that a surveyor to redraft/endorse/re-file the certificates with the coordinates on them. The firm is only expected to field verify the City provided certs/ties, there will be no other research completed by the city or firm.

-Is there significant liability of re-certification of the certificate if all ties are present?

-I have noticed more and more projects like this coming out. Has anyone worked on projects like this for other agencies/municipalities?

I would be interested to know what City and State this is in.


 
Posted : July 5, 2017 8:34 pm
Mark Mayer
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Bill93, post: 435389, member: 87 wrote: [USER=8091]@jab5[/USER] I talked to you today,.....What became of this project?

According to jab5's profile page he hasn't visited this site since 2015. So if you have another way of contacting him maybe that would work better...


 
Posted : July 5, 2017 9:44 pm
Mark Mayer
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thebionicman, post: 435453, member: 8136 wrote: I would be interested to know what City and State this is in.

I believe that Bill93 hails from Cedar Rapids, Iowa.


 
Posted : July 5, 2017 9:45 pm