Mark Mayer, post: 452592, member: 424 wrote: Most of the public agencies that employ surveyors around here work a 4-10s schedule, meaning that employees have a day during the workweek to look after their little side jobs. Very common and above board.
Most of the ones I come across have their own equipment and possibly business licenses to report for taxes. It's easier to have a side job when you don't need that paycheck for health insurance, liability insurance, a retirement plan, child support........
Keeps the overhead low so you can pick and choose the jobs you want. One estimate I did the potential client screwed up by having them do construction staking which they could only do it on the weekends. Called me to complain about it like I cared about his choice.
RPLS#, post: 452440, member: 12280 wrote: I understand your point but we are in different markets. $500 is high for a lot survey around here, I dont get many even at that price. The going rate around here is $385-$450. If those guys would raise there prices I think it would help everyone involved. I know they are worth more than even $500 though. I think they are worth about $1,000 at minimum. I started my business in January and these kinds of surveys are not my target market, but I do them every now and then. I quoted $2,000 for a 5 acre boundary survey recently, I didnt get it, it went to a company that quoted $800. I very frequently get outbid by 50% and thats ok I still have plenty of work.
I'm in the same market. I routinely tell people my prices are based on the size of the lot and complexity of the survey. I don't think I have ever been the cheapest. I did get accused of price gouging on a $450 elevation certificate...he hung up right after the accusation. I didnt call back... I have said my lot surveys start around $500 but I would have to look into it more to give them an actual price. I know survey companies in this area that are $400 + tax for a lot survey and they don't even look at the lot before quoting. I have no interest in trying to compete for a $400 job. I get plenty of price shoppers that expect that $400 price tag but I quote them with a smile... kinda get a kick out of it when I hear them gasp.
Hey Darryl, tell Rafael Aaron from UH says hi.
Jones, post: 452337, member: 10458 wrote: We pinned a house a couple of weeks ago, the head mason drove a 2017 chevy 3500 LTZ, his poor help was only in about a 2015 Denali. We have a 2001 explorer sport trac.
What does what a person drives have to do with anything? You may drive a 2001 explorer but I bet your net worth is greater than that head mason. Some people are content living in a double wide and having a fancy new vehicle. Others like nice houses, retirement accounts, and don't care what they drive.
Our crew currently has two 2017 superduties. We often drive over a 1000 miles a week going to job sites and downtime is very expensive for us so we stay in new vehicles. Drive them a couple years and trade before crap starts breaking. If I worked local and it wasn't such a big deal when a truck broke down we would drive older stuff but it is very expensive to have a crew of guys sitting around on an out of town job where motels are over $200 a night and they can't work because the truck is in the shop.
Drilldo, post: 453095, member: 8604 wrote: What does what a person drives have to do with anything? You may drive a 2001 explorer but I bet your net worth is greater than that head mason. Some people are content living in a double wide and having a fancy new vehicle. Others like nice houses, retirement accounts, and don't care what they drive.
Our crew currently has two 2017 superduties. We often drive over a 1000 miles a week going to job sites and downtime is very expensive for us so we stay in new vehicles. Drive them a couple years and trade before crap starts breaking. If I worked local and it wasn't such a big deal when a truck broke down we would drive older stuff but it is very expensive to have a crew of guys sitting around on an out of town job where motels are over $200 a night and they can't work because the truck is in the shop.
While in generally it doesn't matter, but we as profession are wanting the same respect as other professionals or even tradesman. In MHO, you can't demand the same respect or even fee's driving beat up trucks, and cobbled together equipment.
Mark Mayer, post: 452330, member: 424 wrote: On a construction site this morning. Dirt sub driving an Escalade. Surveyor has an '06 F150. Just sayin'.
Drilldo, post: 453095, member: 8604 wrote: What does what a person drives have to do with anything?
The larger truth here is that I'm hearing from superintendents that bids from trades are way, way up across the board. And a lot of those trades have new vehicles and various types of new equipment. The trades are making money and the surveyors are racing to the bottom.
Get hung up in the minutae of whether driving a new vehicle indicates your wealth if you like.
Suppose Realtors we're issued Boundator licenses:
Client: I need a Survey
Boundator: Do you have your current survey on the market?
Client: no.
Boundator: okay let me do a Survey market analysis which is mostly SWAGging from the current listings that anyone can look up themselves.
Client: okay.
Boundator: oh hey your current metes and bounds are "dated," definitely not in the current taste. You need to spend thousands of dollars changing it.
Client: but it's an old property (you know old as in "dated"), shouldn't people who want new stuff go look in new neighborhoods?
Boundator: you are depressing me, you sound dated to me.
Typical Boundator advertisement: MUST SEE FABULOUS and Charming survey in old, established part of the land net! Update the corner monuments to your personal taste. Loads of potential here to encroach 20 or 30' onto the neighbors for a pool or tennis court or you name it!
Mark Mayer, post: 452420, member: 424 wrote: If you have to look at the price tag you can't afford it. But it seems like a lot of trades don't really have to look at price tags these days. Surveyors do. And that's the point.
No. All you have proven is they bought expensive vehicles, not that they can afford said vehicles.
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Jawja, post: 453225, member: 12766 wrote: No. All you have proven is they bought expensive vehicles, not that they can afford said vehicles.
The larger truth here is that I'm hearing from superintendents that bids from trades are way, way up across the board. And a lot of those trades have new vehicles and various types of new equipment. The trades are making money and the surveyors are racing to the bottom.
Get hung up in the minutae of whether driving a new vehicle indicates your wealth if you like.
Mark Mayer, post: 453228, member: 424 wrote: The larger truth here is that I'm hearing from superintendents that bids from trades are way, way up across the board. And a lot of those trades have new vehicles and various types of new equipment. The trades are making money and the surveyors are racing to the bottom.
Get hung up in the minutae of whether driving a new vehicle indicates your wealth if you like.
But anecdotal evidence what vehicle they drive is not minutia, nor is developers talking about how much the trades are charging. You do not know THEIR overhead any more than they know yours. Bottom line, if you do not think you are charging enough then change your rates. If you do not think your competitor is charging enough then study his business to figure out how he is making a profit. But trying to use what people drive as "proof" that the trades are better business people is faulty logic. I survey out of a 2013 MDX, but I do so because that is my vehicle not because I am a better business guy than the guy driving the 1996 jeep Cherokee. Heck, I am jealous of his vehicle because I like jeeps.
Just my thoughts on it.
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Okay this is simple, contractors are in business to make a profit, it's not a hobby or even a "passion." I don't think anyone ever said they have a passion for moving dirt around. A dirt business (so-called General Engineering) is going to push a lot more dollars through just because of the cost of people and equipment. So the owner drives a nice Company Vehicle, of course, and his wife too, it's a write off.
The small time surveyor keeps most of the revenue. I suppose you could say the profit is revenue minus expenses and salary you could get working for someone else. Maybe on that metric you run at a negative profit but do it because you like being your own boss, nothing wrong with that. So there's really no advantage in showing up in an $80,000 SUV with leather, heated seats, and all the other bells and whistles.
I personally have zero desire to own a construction firm no matter how nice the company vehicle I get to drive is, way way too much stress. Whenever I see some suit wearing guy driving the most expensive Mercedes Benz my first reaction is sympathy for how destructively stressful his life must be.
Jesusfreak, post: 452425, member: 12874 wrote: [QUOTE="Surveyors do. And that's the point.
Exactly, a vehicle that old should have been depreciated out years ago. Not that its all about show, but showing up with a professional vehicle and equipment does matter. We need to change the image of the profession from a bunch of beer drinking, cigarette smoking hicks to professionals. I have ran into this so much over the years that it makes me sick. Surveyors have a solid foundation to build from (look at Mt. Rushmore). I was just in Nashville, TN and there is a plaque for Colonel John Donelson and on it, it talks about him being a distinguished and noted Surveyor. Lets get back to being known as that!
I wish I could have authored your post, very well said. This needs to be the topic of conversation across all of our Professional Societies. I am by no means proposing we start fixing prices. I repeat, I do not support the concept of fixing prices. What I do believe is that if we want to be considered professional, we should start acting like professionals, and that begins with charging for the value of our work rather than what we think it 'costs' to do the work. While I get that there are differences across the nation, I cannot fathom, how anyone can conduct a legitimate survey of a property for hundreds of dollars.
OK, rant off; bucking my seat belt, tightening my helmet chinstrap and waiting for the sparks to fly!!!
My opinion, a work truck should be a good truck to be able to hold the crew and equipment and have all of the necessary accessories to do the job - look professional. Your work truck should not be a broken down jalopy, and it shouldn't be too extravagant for the job. You want the client seeing that you have what it takes to do the job, but you don't want them to think that you are charging so much to make your payments for luxury "work" vehicles.
As far as some construction worker driving his own personal truck to the job site, they should be able to drive whatever they want, with little scrutiny. The guy can live in a trailer and drive a new Hummer with all the bells and whistles if he wants, or drive a car on it's last leg if he can get to work on time.
Tom Adams, post: 453308, member: 7285 wrote: My opinion, a work truck should be a good truck to be able to hold the crew and equipment and have all of the necessary accessories to do the job - look professional. Your work truck should not be a broken down jalopy, and it shouldn't be too extravagant for the job. You want the client seeing that you have what it takes to do the job, but you don't want them to think that you are charging so much to make your payments for luxury "work" vehicles.
As far as some construction worker driving his own personal truck to the job site, they should be able to drive whatever they want, with little scrutiny. The guy can live in a trailer and drive a new Hummer with all the bells and whistles if he wants, or drive a car on it's last leg if he can get to work on time.
You do know hummer went defunct in 2010, right;)
Otherwise I agree. Don't drive crap.
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This talk of the perception of the Profession is so OLD! I don't think that many of my clients see me as a "beer drinking, cigarette smoking hicks," but then again they are paying me tons of money to do their project, and I assume they wouldn't pay that to a "BDCS Hick."
I can only control my "image" and not that of other local practitioners, and of the 20 or so local PLS's I can think of only one that I would say something to.
If more of the PLS's did the field work then the image might change, but so long as we're hiring "grunt" workers, and treating them as such, then the public perception will be mostly limited to what they see standing by the road.
My 0.04' worth
Don
Matt,
You have no idea how good those mules were! They may have been the best mules in that part of the world, which would make them a better value than horses (the prime vehicle of choice at that time).:p
JRC
